seriously people.

[Chantilly]

Ok so this is something that really bothers me.
Every week or month or so there are little markets on the street or roadside sort of thing. (Where we got Tilly) And there are about 3 or 4 around our area that are on once a month and weekly.
Now where we got Tilly they were as you have probably heard, rough people. They handled the birds they bred as money and thats what they were to them. They have heaps of featherless chicks in incubators to show people and unweaned not fully feathered chicks for sale. We bought from them out of pity for the birds ( Our galah had recently died) and bought a bag of seed from them soon to relise that it was crawling with weavels. Firstly: Why would they try to sell us food when she was unweaned and had about a month till she would even consider trying seed. Second: Who sells things that are infested with insects! Seriously why would they even consider selling it.
So anyway we went back and demanded that they refund the seed wich they were not happy about and they then tried to sell us a 'good bag' wich we denied(It still had weevels just not as many.).
So we headed back to our car to go home holding the cold little chick huddling in our hands, and see another guy selling seed so we buy from him(We still do only because Tilly LOVES his seed bells). And a month or so later we see him talking to some people looking at buying a yound GCC from him(We were waiting to buy a seedbell), and this is how the conveasation went:
Woman: so what is it?
Him: A Green Cheek conure
Woman: Ah ok, so where is it native too?
Him: Uhhh I dont know
OMYGOSH IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE A BUISSNESS OUT OF BUYING AND SELLING BIRDS THEN ATLEST LEARN A BIT ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SELLING!!
He had told us before then that he buys the birds elswhere 'tames' them and then sells them as pets. Now these birds have only just got all thier feathers, and probably ony weaned by a week or two.
They are cold and scared, the wind is blowing them of their perch and they are clipped so people can pick them up. Now, I have seen that babies dont bite and instead just sit there. How wrong is that?
Buy a bird, force it in to your hands and flood it for what is probably only three days, clip it and sell it as a tamed bird. Is that not animal cruelty and lying to the customer?
Atleast Tilly's breeder knew a bit about what they were selling. Look, I admit we knew nothing when we got Tilly, but as soon as we were home we were cuddling her and searched what babies should eat and where they are from, we didnt know that much still, but we leart a lot more than that guy knew and it took like 5 minutes. 5MINUTES and you can educate the people you are selling a living animal to. Why? Why cant he take 5minutes to learn something!? And why would he put a BABY through that. a BABY for Gods sake! He should be fined for cruelty to animals, I think, but a lot of people wouldnt see it as cruelty.
And as for Tillys breeder, they seemed to know enough, but wouldnt tell us anything, Why would you sell something so precious without telling the person what you know? Why would you sell someone who knows nothing about the species an unweaned baby? Its just wrong. Im not saying I dont think it can give a better bond(not saying it does either), but still it is wrong, i would never sell an unweaned baby to someone I didnt know(or any bird for that fact).
Both of the people are selling birds to people who are blind to the subject, Who knows where the bird will end up and that it would be cared for properally?
Sorry for ranting, this has just been something that really bugs my for a long while now. I really wish RSPCA would stop things like this, because i can imagine it often ends in a bird who is neglected and abused, or sold again and again, or let into the wild. Tilly is lucky she didnt get sold to somebody else, and that we picked her (I wonder where her sibling is at?). And Im not saying that there arent people that will keep the bird and love it forever, but im saying allot of people wouldnt, and usually it isnt the case. The place I work, you should see the amount of birds that are surendered each week(mind you I live in a VERY small town!) , either aggresive and unwanted or from people who just dont care for them anymore or have no time for them. They are eventually released into the huge freeflight aivery with everyone else , and if they think they are human and end up attacked in the aivery they go back to cage life... So I get to see allot of that sort of thing, unwanted birds and its sad, and some tend to get pretty depresed (especially eclectusses) especially if they were really attached to the previous owner.
I just wish people selling birds would take the time to educate the buyers and make them aware of what a big responsibility they are.

[Pajarita]

Unfortunately, as long as the bird has access to water and food (regardless of whether the food is appropriate or even any good or the water dirty) and protection from the elements (and that does not really include heat in the winter or even a clean cage), they are within the law so the authorities that monitor animal cruelty can do nothing about bad conditions and that's why the laws need to be changed. But, every time animal right activists push for a change, the people, at least here in the States, listen to what PIJAC says ("Animal rights activists want to make pets illegal, don't listen to them! - They want the government to take away your pets!") not taking into consideration that PIJAC is the lobbying arm of the pet industry - and industry that makes billions of dollars every year breeding and selling animals as well as stuff that might not be even good for your animal.

I know there is people who say that there are good breeders but, in all honesty, to me, that's an oxymoron because that implies breeders love birds and nobody who loves birds would actually sell a baby to whoever has the money to pay for it, right? I mean, if you have a pair and, by mistake or on purpose, you ended up with babies, would you sell them to whoever had the money to pay for them? I couldn't! It would be like selling my grandchildren! If you put a price and accept payment for a bird you are a merchant - thus, breeders are not bird lovers but merchants, and merchants care for the bottom line because that's why they are in business for: to make money. It's not in the merchant's own interest to tell the interested potential consumer the problems with the product they sell - if they did, they would not sell as many, right? And that's why they don't care to learn because, even when they do learn, they wouldn't tell you.

[Chantilly]

I volonteer they have these 'inspectors' (forget what they are called but they are meant to help animals and ensure they are well cared for) come in to see the birds are well cared for.
Example of how helpful they are: Their is a thriving cattle egret that cant fly(hit by a car or something) but its happy, and enjoys chillin in a big paddock it has, and has had for many years. They just said 'it cant fly kill it.' It is a happy bird, No way should it be killed! And an eclectus female with dermatitis 'its lost its feathers kill it.'
What happened to CARING for animals? They say kill it because its 'deformed' or 'plucked' but just because its deformed or has a skin problem it does not mean it cant live a happy life and it does not mean that it does not deserve a shot at that life. I forget who the people were but they were like animal conversationists or something like that. The place I work takes in these hurt, injured, deformed or unwanted animals and gives them a good life.
There are so many good potential pet birds for adoption, yet people buy from breeders(so did we). If the breeders would stop breeding for just 1second.. Mabey the poor birds in need of a home would be considered for once.

[marie83]

I am with Pajarita in a way. I accidently ended up with 22 mice, the female was pregnant when she arrived. I kept every single one of them.
That's quite a massive commitment when most of the babies were males so could not be kept together & they stink no matter what methods you use to clean them out- full changes, part changes, different substrates etc. They easily took 90- 120 minutes of your day just feeding, watering and spot cleaning. A full clean would take about 4 hours. 18 hours a week!
2 and a half years on we have 9 mice left. Daddy mouse- stripe had a stroke and is special needs now, he gets along fine but needs extra care, a very shallow water dish which needs changing 4 times a day because he knocks bedding in it and it all wicks out. I'm careful where I place it but he still manages to get bedding in it. He loves his card tubes but when walking along side them he seems to knock them too and block his way no matter how I lay them out or bury them in substrate. He doesn't have the strength in his rear end to climb over them.

If there are people out there who would do all that for "just a mouse" them I really don't understand people who breed cats/dogs/birds etc because they love them. I would never stop worrying that they were ok.

[Chantilly]

Kudods to you for keeping them all!
Agreed, As I said, if I for some crazy reason decided to breed a bird, or it happend unitentionally, IF the young went to a new home, i would go crazy! I dont think I could give them away, especially not to just anyone, and If i did, It would be to someone i know and trust or to a sanctuary, thus they being young could live like a wild bird. (Which if I were a parrot is what i would want.)

[Pajarita]

I think that, maybe, the 'inspector' people you were talking about might have been government officials of what would be the equivalent to the American Wildlife, Fish and Game Dept. But they are neither conservationists nor do they care about the animals welfare, their function is to make sure there are manageable numbers, that they don't bother people, farms, ranchs, etc and to provide game for people to hunt. They are actually quite heartless when it comes to animals...

[liz]

Marie did you not figure out how you were getting so many? Ha Ha

Years ago before I knew how to stop them, my Cockatiels had babies and I went through all kinds of problems before I found the right homes for them.

The year only one was produced I had to rehome him alone. I went to the owner of a Southern States store I had worked for and convinced him that he needed a singing cockatiel to let people know that there was a pet food section. He had to promise not to sell him. I knew all the people and knew they would take good care of him.

[marie83]

They were given to me by a woman who said they were two males. The female was already pregnant. The male was castrated and the babies separated when old enough.

[seagoatdeb]

When I bought Gaugan 17 years ago, I was told she was a male and she had the male colouring. When she had her first moult she was a red belly female. I cant tell with Poi babies, they act much the same but with older Pois I can tell if they are male or female usually because they act different and have a slightly different head shape and beak size too. When my daughter and I recently picked up a resucue Senegal, we were told it was a he, but we could see right away it was a she. You sure cant count on what people tell you the sex is with some species and colorations.

I have a hard time rehoming parrots too. I love them so much. The couple times I have done it was to give them a better home. It was very hard, but so much better for the bird. I could never breed, I would want to keep them all.

[Chantilly]

I think that, maybe, the 'inspector' people you were talking about might have been government officials of what would be the equivalent to the American Wildlife, Fish and Game Dept. But they are neither conservationists nor do they care about the animals welfare, their function is to make sure there are manageable numbers, that they don't bother people, farms, ranchs, etc and to provide game for people to hunt. They are actually quite heartless when it comes to animals...

I just remembered who they were, biosecurity(i hate my memory sometimes).. Agreed, but how could people be so dark? to say things like that, to say that a content animal must die, they must not have any pets of their own.