More than a pretty bird!

[Wolf]

I know a lot of normal lokking people who treat their animal companions poorly and their animals are aware of it. This is not a healthy relationship with the animal, in my opinion. I may not understand what is behind the actions of people like this Mr. Parrotman that cause them to change their appearance so drastically, but as long as they are not infringing on another's freedoms then it is up to them and if they treat their animal companions well and with love and respect, how can I say that it is not a healthy relationship, at least for the animals?

If we only allow that which we know and are accustomed to or only that which we understand then can you call it freedom? I do draw the line at hurting others humans or non human, but I really don't have any problem with this as long as it is not hurting or harming others, it is their right. My understanding and / or agreement with it is not needed nor required.

[seagoatdeb]

I don't have major issues with a couple of tattoos, a piercing or shaving one's head, the problem I have with people that go to the extremes like this guy has is that in order for anybody to change his looks so radically and in such a way that he no longer resembles a normal human being, there has to be an underlying psychological issue at work there (there is actually a name for it and it's Body Dysmorphic Disorder). I mean, the only reason why you would do such a thing is because you really really don't like yourself because, if you do, you don't feel the need to 'change' anything, right? And, in my personal opinion, if you don't like yourself to that point, the relationship you have with your animals might not be a healthy one because the relationship you have with yourself is not healthy. I like animals A LOT, I actually feel not only sympathy and empathy for them but also love. I think they are, in reality, much better beings than humans and I find them all incredibly beautiful but that doesn't mean that I don't like humans or myself or that I would get surgery to make myself look more like them.

There are many reasons people modify their bodies, and it usually is not because they dont like themselves. The reasons are to be be noticed more, to be different, to create their own style etc. etc. etc. As long as they dont hurt others, and are in their right minds, I say modify away if thats what you are into. I dont do much at all to make any changes to my appearance anyway, just not my thing I guess. I dont care about makeup, cut my own hair when its too long. And dont use a razor for anything. just an aging hippy i guess.....lol

[Pajarita]

The phenomenon has always existed (the tattoed lady of the freak shows, etc) but the large scope of it is, apparently, fairly recent so we are still studying it but, for what I have read and as far as psychology goes today (notice that I say 'today' - this might change in the future), scientists say there are two reasons for these extremes:
One is that people feel they were born with a 'defective' body which needs to be corrected (amputation been one of the most extreme examples). Two is people who have felt ignored to the point of becoming almost invisible to other people so they 'adorn' themselves in such a way that would inevitably call attention to themselves.

Mind you, this doesn't apply to makeup, shaving, dying hair or any of the 'mild' and socially accepted forms of 'enhancing' one's appearance, it's for the extreme cases.

But the point I was trying to make about their healthy or not healthy relationship with their pets is that, in my personal opinion, if you have a pet just so it can give you something you 'lack' on your own, you will put your needs first and, when it comes to parrots, unless you put their needs first, it doesn't really work for them... not in the long run.

[seagoatdeb]

Get your point Pajarita, but I dont agree wth putting your parrots needs first. I beleive in treating all with equality, so it conflcts with my basic truth I live by. However, there are times it is necessary to put others first, and can be a great act to do, and i do it when called upon. It is not something I see as a day to day living with parrots activity that would be sucessfull. They need to adjust to us as much as we need to adjust to them. in regards to the need to have a parrot to fullfill something in you, all life runs that way. You eat to fullfiil your need for hunger. You may have chldren to fulfill a need. whats wrong with fulfiling needs, thats what it is all about. I am too practical to even see it as possiible to always put your parrots needs first. in fact were I to do that I have a tendency to spoil both children and parrots if I dont keep it in check.

This is just the way I look at things, but my point is we all are different and labels are given to many kinds of body modificatiion. in ancient cultures, their body modifications would be labeled as a sickness today. Tolerance and understanding of oneself is the road to healing, and although labels are sometimes usefull, our society over labels. We have to step in and protect peole who will hurt them selves and others, but if thier body modifications harm no one, it is their business and theirbusiiness alone.

Most parrot owners only have a parrot or two. Modifying thier body is no proof of any kind that they woud not be able to be good parrot people.

[Wolf]

We do not even have to look at ancient cultures we still have cultures where scarification, full body tattoos and other forms of what most of us consider to be mutilations are not only the norm, but in some of them are indicators of standing in their communities and others where these modifications are highly prized.

As for the relationship between bird and human being healthy I think it is much better that we go by what the bird is treated like not by the appearance of the human, we have a lot to learn from our animals in this regard.

[liz]

People really do some strange things. Even though I would never the individual must like the attention he gets by being different. I would never think less of him. Of course I would not be able to stop staring either.

[Pajarita]

No, no, you are confusing issues. When a culture requires, say, full body tattoos or piercing it is the individual that refuses to have them done the one that is calling attention to themselves. I am talking about people that go to extremes to look different than what is considered the norm in the culture he/she lives in or people who believe their body is actually defective. It is not the same thing at all.

As to putting or not putting the birds first... it is a matter of choice, of course. Most people don't and that's a fact. The way I look at it, it's SO hard to provide them with their physiological needs that even when you make a point of putting their needs before your desires, there are still huge lacks in their lives so when you don't, it just creates too large a void for them. And that makes me terribly unhappy. Let me give you and example: my husband and I took our son and his family to Washington as our treat to them. We rented a fancy van to drive there, stayed in the Hilton Gardens downtown because it was the only hotel in the city that had an indoor pool (for my grand-daughter), went out to dinner at a nice ethnic restaurant, went on the monuments tour, to the Smithsonian, etc. It was very nice but we only stayed one night because I refused to be away from home longer than that although our daughter and grand-daughter (she knows the routines better than our daughter ) were coming to take care of them. They got their usual food, the solar schedule, clean cages and birdroom, etc but the parrots downstairs had to stay in their cages for two whole days and I felt so terrible about it that I told my husband not to plan any other overnight outing for the two of us EVER AGAIN. Now, most people would think this attitude is crazy (my family certainly does! I am now getting bombarded with complaints because one grand-daughter is turning 15 next year and our daughter wants both of us to be at the party) but just thinking they were caged for 48 hours, waiting for me and not understanding why I wasn't there took all the fun out of it... all I did was fret fret fret! Mind you, I worried about the dogs, too! And it turned out that I had good reason to worry because as they couldn't be let out in the middle of the day, one of my old dogs ended up with a UTI from holding his urine from morning to night. And Pookey TAG's cage was left open and she ended up hiding under a cage, too - which messed up the 'inuring process' (she has become scared of Freddy) I had started with her so I had to go back to square one.

I tell you, I wish I wasn't the way I am... Lord knows my life would be MUCH easier if I did not put the animals needs before mine but I am the way I am and I stopped trying to be 'normal' many years ago.

[seagoatdeb]

There are so many parrots out there who need people Pajarita, that it is wonderfull that you are there, and realate the way you do. At this time in my life, I am down to only 2 parrots and they get a lot of attention since there are two of us, and two parrots and we are both retired. Many people only have a few parrots. You have a lot so its a much bigger responsibility, so i can well understand it and think its a wonderfull thing you are doing.

In my life, i want to travel some, I garden, and have 2 grandchildren 3 children, and hubby and none of them come first we are all equal. I do have the tendency to have a lot of parrots and have in the past, but i have to think of the future and two to rehome and places for them are already prepared in case.

When you only have two parrots and you are around a lot they get a lot of atttention and a lot more needs can be met more easily. In the wild they would have to work hard all day looking for food and preening. The weakest get picked off by the predators. They lose a lot by being brought to domesticity but they also gain things.

I am also a person who is not a common herd mentality sort. All my life I have felt different, because I think for myself, and follow my intuition. When every living being in this house, feathered or not feels they are getting equal we are all happy and content.

That person who body modifys may have wonderfull relationships with his parrots. he is an odd one all right, but until i meet him, i would never know if he is so into parrots that he wants to wear that indentification in a healthy way for the parrots, if he is an interesting ecentric person or leaning toward wacko..so I have no criteria to know how well he is with his parrots.

[Wolf]

Precisely ! I have no information about how he treats his birds, I don't know if he is qualified to be referred to as a wacko or not, but I have known some real wackos that are extremely good with animals, so even that does not indicate that he has a poor relationship with his birds. Or that it is unhealthy for either of them.
Like parrot science, psychology is in itself still in it's infancy and still has a long way to go.

[Viatrixa]

I believe there's something wacko about all of us in one way or another.

My facebook photopage, where people would normally put pictures of their kids, I put pictures of Simo. Some people actually already jokingly refer to me as the "crazy bird lady" and this is only after owning a single parrot. Just imagine when my flock grows!

I myself intend to modify my own body just a little further, nothing radical mind you. I'd like a nice, possibly bird or octopus themed tattoo sleeve on my arm (when I was younger and a teenager, I was terribly self destructive and I cut that arm up )

The thing with myself is that while I'm not very social at all, my friends are all into piercings and tattoos and such - wierd stuff. But I have to mention that all of these who do own pets give them more love, time, and dedication that the "normal" people I've known in my life. It's very difficult to explain; I also believe its partially due to the "animals and pets love you for who you are and you care for them" and don't really give a hoot (unless it's an owl) about how you chose to look.

There have been moments in our lives when our finances have really hit rock bottom. Even in these cases, the little "emergency money" we have stashed away gets ALL spent on the bird. Me and the husband can survive on cheap & easy to make food. The bird however, gets luxury treatment and gets his treats and normal food. Me and my husband can loose weight, Simo can not. He has always been taken care of, and better than ourselves at that

We're way past this bad streak in our lives but my point is, we put our bird as well as our snake before our own needs. I don't think we could ever make friends with people who don't like animals. Also curiously enough, we've both been amazed at how little people know about birds. Most of my family is very excited about him, despite his occasional loudness and habits. It's been educational to them and it's gotten to the point where my mom sends us special raisins from Spain. Her friend keeps a private, small scale vineyard there and other than vine he sells very delicious raisins which Simo is nuts for (he uses no pesticides and so on).

All I could suggest to you folks is that if you ever have the chance to come across a person who is a little different like that, talk to them! Ask them these questions yourself - believe it or not, they do like to answer. Watch documentaries or heck, even email them. You'd be surprised how kind they are and how much they do love their animal companions.

That having said, aren't I a bit of a freak around here as well? I love reptiles, and many people are uncomfy with them!