Pajarita wrote:seagoatdeb wrote:I think just about anyone with a tame bird is trained in recall.....outside they get afraid...and many will not respond to recall..... The ones that recall well outside have had outside flight training.
I dont believe in what you say about clips or that it is scientific Pajarita, even though i see you speak with great convition. When parrots are moulting they can still attain almost as good a flight as when not. Mild clipping does not limit them even that much often. If you can show me some scientific evidence on every clipping technique, that is taking everything into account includig mild clipping, it could change my mind, but you would have over 20 years of experience and watching different clips effect on many parrots to counter so it would have to be really good research, which I have not been shown so far. All research anyone has ever posted here was never complete with good data on all the different clips and mild clipping. Mild clipping is very under researched and due to predjudice, I am afraid it may be a long time before many are not black and white about this important issue. I would be willing to give some of what I learned out more, but since it will probably not be received well, I have not bothered too very often.
Oh, come on! Let's not play games, Seagoatdeb. You know very well there are no studies on different clips (we hardly have any studies on parrots, period, much less on different clips - who would pay a scientist to do such a study?!) so asking for them strikes me as a bit specious on your part. And it's not prejudice, it's a matter of not believing that we know better than nature because besides the very important fact that replacing feathers during molt is a matter of days while a clip lasts two years, parrots also don't molt laterally more than two remiges or directrices at a time so the question that begs asking is why do people think that nature was wrong about this.
Now, if you are really interested in exploring the subject objectively with what material we do have available to us, here are a few studies that prove that impairing flight has both physical and emotional consequences (there are more but these will get you started - they cover from generalities to how flight is direcly related to respiration, to how muscles start atrophying after only 40 days of non-flight, to how the flee or fight response activates stress hormones):
https://www.cagesbydesign.com/t-wingclipping.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_clipping
http://www.tci-thaijo.org/index.php/tjv ... /view/9647
http://www.avianwelfare.org/issues/arti ... blems.html
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... s_a_Spring
http://www.jstor.org/stable/2656492?seq ... b_contents
http://www.calmclinic.com/anxiety/sympt ... ine-system
http://www.treeswallowprojects.com/cflight.html
PS You might be interested to know that in Europe and South America, clipping a bird wings is considered a sign of bad husbandry and, as such, rarely done.
I am not playing games Pajarita. i am saying that people are black and white on this issue, and modest clipping info is lacking. Your links are all the same links that dont differentiate clips, so are not helpfull to look at modest clips.
This is a very important issue. So many parrots end up cage bound because the owner cant handle them and can only find info on severe clipping. I know the damge severe cliping can do I am trying to help to keep people from doing severe clips that can be damaging to parrots and defending the right of the OP to make his own freee choice. I dont agree with your "only one way approach" but you are allowed to have your own beliefs without becoming insulting, because i dont agree.
