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Where have I been?

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Re: Where have I been?

Postby seagoatdeb » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:16 am

I belong to a lot of poi groups and have extensively studied Pois and know dozens of them. I have had many talks with people about pois too. When a poi has a phobic reaction to something they can just fly panicked. My daughters reacted at the same time, so they probably saw the same thing. None of our other parrots were bothered so its interesting they were both Meyers.
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seagoatdeb
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Re: Where have I been?

Postby Pajarita » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:33 am

Well, I don't normally go by what people say about their parrots. For one thing, I have found that almost everybody lies online and, for another and going by my personal experience with parrots that were rehomed to me, even people who have had their parrots for years and years [and I am not talking 2 or 3 years, either, I am talking over 20!] read them all wrong, and even more so if they have a single bird. It's impossible to judge a species by one bird. You just can't do it. All you are actually doing is reporting what your own bird does and how you interpret it. Mind you, not that I have that much more experience because I've only had four senegals and two redbellies! So, although I could say that I have or have not observed a certain behavior in my birds, I would never go as far as actually stating that the behavior or lack of it is typical of the entire species. You would need to observe an entire flock for a couple of years to begin to scratch the surface of that knowledge...
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Re: Where have I been?

Postby seagoatdeb » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:11 pm

Yeah but us that have had them from babies and have a very close relationship with them can read them like a book sometimes. I can tell when Sunny wants to go somewhere so now when he is on me I just lift him higher so he can make where he wants to go. I know Gaugan so well I can tell what mood she is in by the look in her eyes. Gaugan can also read me like a book. She knows what mood i am in and Sunny is learning. It was never like that with my rescues. With them it was more like trying to discover what they liked to do with humans, so it involved a longer time to understand them and it was harder to get the really close bond if you ever could. But I did find with the rehomes that had been taken out a lot that keeping them inside with no outings was not good for them. My daughters senegal gets distraught if anyone is in the kitchen and they dont take her in with them. i have always trained my parrots to stay out of the kitchen....too dangerous. But in my daughters house she has had to allow the rescued Senegal to be in the kitchen, it was so obvious that was an important part of her former life that meant a lot to her.

i meet people a lot that dont seem to understand their parrots at all, so i agree many are like that, but i also meet many who I value the opinion of.

I do see you as a very good resource on rehomed parrots, so i listen to what you say and always think about it, but I also see that you lack personal experience with baby birds. So I do see objectively, I believe. So lets just agree to disagree. I see your points, and agree with some but not all. We both have opinions based on our own experiences.
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seagoatdeb
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Re: Where have I been?

Postby seagoatdeb » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:34 pm

i would also like to say Sunny is adjusting and coping well with being able to fly less high but he still misses it i can tell, but he is doing well. Gaugan is really being good and not taking advantage of this. she really is such a sweet girl.
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seagoatdeb
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Flight: Yes

Re: Where have I been?

Postby Pajarita » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:21 am

Of course we agree to disagree! But I have to tell you that all the people who were wrong about their birds had had them since infancy so I doubt that having a bird since it was a baby actually helps in any way to figure out their behaviors. Basically because, as you stated, one pays more attention to behaviors when the bird is rehomed than when one has one from infancy, forcing you to figure out the whys and hows of their actions.

I might be wrong on this and if I am, please correct me, but you always seem to come through as believing that a bird that was raised by its owner from infancy has a deeper? better? relationship with its human than a rehomed one and I don't agree with that. It's an old-fashioned way of thinking, it seems to me... The old 'you have to get them when they are babies for them to bond with you' theory was one of the greatest obstacles animal rescuers had to fight and one that has been debunked over and over with dogs, cats, birds and any other animal. It's kind of like saying that you cannot love your second husband the same as the first one. It's very romantic but not true. Love is love and there is an infinite capacity for it in all of us [and I include animals in that 'all'].
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Re: Where have I been?

Postby seagoatdeb » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:55 am

Pajarita wrote:Of course we agree to disagree! But I have to tell you that all the people who were wrong about their birds had had them since infancy so I doubt that having a bird since it was a baby actually helps in any way to figure out their behaviors. Basically because, as you stated, one pays more attention to behaviors when the bird is rehomed than when one has one from infancy, forcing you to figure out the whys and hows of their actions.

I might be wrong on this and if I am, please correct me, but you always seem to come through as believing that a bird that was raised by its owner from infancy has a deeper? better? relationship with its human than a rehomed one and I don't agree with that. It's an old-fashioned way of thinking, it seems to me... The old 'you have to get them when they are babies for them to bond with you' theory was one of the greatest obstacles animal rescuers had to fight and one that has been debunked over and over with dogs, cats, birds and any other animal. It's kind of like saying that you cannot love your second husband the same as the first one. It's very romantic but not true. Love is love and there is an infinite capacity for it in all of us [and I include animals in that 'all'].


Neither you or me will ever be able to get completely into a parrots head but when they are rehomed they have all the experience of the other homes. All animals have different intelligence and different abilities to remember. Parrots memories are amazing. If they knew you when they were 3 and loved you and met you again and they were 35 you have changed a lot and they will still remember you and in that they are better than human. They have memories of every owner and every pastime they did. When you get them no matter how good you do, at giving things they never got before, they may be missing something that meant so much to them....it could be outings, sharing food off a plate, etc. etc. but they will feel something missing they cant communicate to you. With a baby, you grow together, sharing all the years, there is a closeness after so many years where you just "understand" so much about each other.

To be fair and honest even in humans I will say this; I have been widowed twice. As happy as I am with current hubby, there are certain things that were special with each my fist two that will always be missed, I am still very happy, but when looking at my sister who is still with her hubby they have that ease of understanding built up after 45 years. I still am learning with current even though our love is deep and I am happy.

So i am not saying that it isnt possible for a rehomed animal or person to find something even better. They can and do. What i am saying is we miss what we used to love with a past love, that was unique to that relationship, and so do parrots. i am also saying we learn to "know" each other very deeply when we have so many years of shared experiences. So its relative and there will be many exceptions, but as a general rule based on having had both rehomes and babies, I have had deeper bonds with the ones I got as babys. That is my experience. Your experience is different. We see different and that doesnt make each way of seeing less relevant.

I am not really a romantic as much as I am realist. i dont think i am old fashioned at all. At least no one who knows me would think that...lol....I have observed and not followed any fashion of the time.
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Re: Where have I been?

Postby seagoatdeb » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:07 am

Also Sunny is doing very well. I still dont like that the cant fly as much as before, but i try to anticipate what he will want to do and make it easier for him to be able to achieve it on his own. He seems happy anyway. There was one interaction he had with Gaugan that upset him. He went to feed her and when she was done with the experience, in her abrupt fashion, she took a little peck towards him like she always does and he knows to leave. Well she did her little peck and he was scared to leave fast, so he made a huge squawking kind of noise, the kind Meyers make when afraid, and he landed on the ground. I put him on a perch, and told Gaugan to be nice. She looked pretty mystified, if i can give it a word, since she had acted normal but i did it for Sunny. So he would know he was under my protection and went over and soothed him. It took him a few days to chance it again but after he fed Gaugan, she just stepped back. So i told her what a good girl she was. Since then their relationship is smooth again.
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seagoatdeb
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Posts: 1248
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Types of Birds Owned: Red Belly Poicephalus and a Meyers Poicephalus
Flight: Yes

Re: Where have I been?

Postby Pajarita » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:19 pm

I've also had three husbands but the third and current one is the best of them all [I upgraded :lol: ].

As to being old-fashioned, I did not mean that you were old-fashioned. What I meant was that there are certain concepts that we learn when we are young and even though we learned later in life that they were incorrect, one's mind keeps on using them as defaults and keeps on trying to 'fit' everything to them. One of those is the 'babies bond better than adults' when it comes to animals. I don't know what kind of an experience you had with rehomes... mine has always been very positive but it differs from one bird to another, some adore me [Zoey Senegal, Sophie CAG, Codee GCC], some love me [Mami and Naida Zon, Sweetpea Senegal], some like me a lot [Isis and Davy Redbelly, Linus Too], some tolerate me [Precie and Zeus Zon, Pablo Peachfront], some don't like me or anybody else [Paquita and Rajah Plet] - Cheeks is still too new to tell but he does go after my husband and not me so I guess that, out of the two, he tolerates me better even though he was raised by a man.

Now, the thing with rehomes is that, in a way, they are all birds that were neglected - and I am not talking about abuse or willful neglect but simply life happening. Take Cheeks, for example, this bird was deeply loved all his life but his owner got him when he was in high school and managed to keep a good quality of life for him while he went to college but he is now married and has a very demanding job so he was out of the house from 8 am to 10 pm and precisely because he loves this bird so much, he asked me to take him in. Zoey was a beloved pet but she ended up getting clipped and later kept in her cage for hours and hours because she hated her owner's wife and kept on attacking her, finally, the wife gave an ultimatum: it was her or the bird so I flew to California to pick her up. Codee was also loved but her owner got her, again, when she was in high school and, by the time she went to college and got herself a boyfriend and a part time job, poor Codee spent her days alone so she started biting even though she is the sweetest, sweetest bird! And I could go and on with the examples... My point here is that parrots, as smart as they are, really appreciate good care and are extremely pragmatic animals so, when one comes to a home where the quality of life is superior to what they were getting from their beloved owner, they pay back with the best they can give - whether this is adoration, love, appreciation/affection or simply trust, depends on the bird itself, the species and the circumstances. Of course that if the bird gets excellent care and love from infancy, it will love its owner to pieces, like Gaugan loves you, but it's not so much the fact that they grew up with the only owner they know, it's that they are getting good care and love. At least, that has been my experience.
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Re: Where have I been?

Postby seagoatdeb » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:07 am

You make good points and I dont disagree although I may see it a bit different.

Sunnys feathers grew in really fast. they arent all the way in but he is so happy. He was flying everywhere and then back on me and somewhere else and back on me, again and again, and was so excited. By evening he was mellow and a big love bug. I am so proud of Gaugan. She was so good at not being as bossy with him as usual when he couldnt get around so well. I really think that fiesty gal is the best parrot in the world.

The thing about Gaugan is the moment I met her and at the time she was busy attacking the pet store employee who was wearing gloves to protect him from getting more scars from her, is from the moment i saw her, I could see the sweet loving thing that was under the fear and agression she was showing and i began to talk to her and she stopped attacking the employee and stepped up on me. My daughter urged me to not buy the scary attacking parrot but I was convinced we were meant for each other. Its one of those situations that I have found you run into so very rarely in your life, its when you met another living being and you just "get" each other. Gaugie bird and I just "get" each other. So there is indeed more there, than just gettting her when she was a baby parrot, we get along so smoothly. I have had that kind of relationship with only a couple of humans, one horse, one dog, and a cat. I get along with all animals usually but there is that thing where its just so easy. I really think Gaugan would be a very different parrot if she was not with me. Sunny I think would have done well with anyone who is gentle and kind to him. He is a very sweet natured guy, for a male poi especially.

I am still trying to get Sunny to be able to be handled by my hubby but Sunny is a really hard sell. I have tried everything that has worked with every other parrot to get him to step up for hubby, but he just refuses. I think that it might be because of the closeness I have with Gaugan, and how dominant she is with him, that he doesnt get to be as close to me as he would like and wants something thats very special with just me. He will hang around close to hubby, and even try and get into his food, he will fly around to watch him too when he is doing things in the kitchen, but he will not let him do more than touch his beak. Gaugan will happily hang around with hubby, ride on his shoulder all over the house, and let him know how much she wants to be touched when I am not around, but she does get "ansy" if she thinks I have been gone too long. I do hope one day Sunny willl have a closer relationship to my hubby and also my daugher, because if I take a short trip he will have a much bettter time. Gaugan is pragmatic, and Sunny needs to be a bit more pragmatic for his own good.
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seagoatdeb
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Flight: Yes

Re: Where have I been?

Postby Pajarita » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:02 am

I think that time has a way of both fixing things and smoothing out rough edges. Again, that has been my experience - if you don't give up and are persistent and consistent, they might not love you to pieces but they will like you and feel affection for you.

I also have found that the easiest birds to get to love its new human are the ones that loved their previous one. It's the same thing with dogs, cats and any other animal I have encountered. While the ones that were abused might end up either completely rehabilitated or loving/trusting just one person, the ones that were well loved will end up loving the new human they ended up with easily and fast as long as the new human gives good care and love. And this is one of the reasons why I take such exception to people using the term 'rescue' so indiscriminately. Nowadays, people say they 'rescued' their dog/cat/parrot when, in reality, they simply adopted it! Adoption or rehome is NOT rescue and people should not confuse the terms because a rescued animal is an animal that needs rehabilitation both physically and emotionally while an animal that goes from one good home to another would not. Same thing with animals in shelters or rescues... granted that they are not the best place for them but, in a good rescue, a sick animal will be made healthy and an animal that came in with trust [aggression] issues will be made to trust again and will transfer the trust and love they learned there to their new human - again, as long as the home is good and the human is loving -and, in the case of parrots, knowledgeable [which is the operative word when it comes to a good human/parrot relationship!].

Zoey hated my husband on sight and went out of her way to show it but she has no issues with him now. She doesn't love him like Isis does but she will not bite him, will step up for him, etc. This took years but that was because, in her previous home, her human's wife was not a 'likeable' person so I guess that she kind of learned to just love her human and reject the spouse. All the birds that came from a loving home [I am not talking about good diet, flight, etc. I am only talking about love], adjust and learn to love me or my husband in no time at all.
Pajarita
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Flight: Yes

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