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Hello strangers!

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Hello strangers!

Postby marie83 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:14 pm

Just thought I would stop by with some updates (Not all good I'm afraid) as it's been so long. Time has run away and continues to do so but it's nearly 1am and I am awake and worrying.

How are you all? I'm hoping there will be some of you here who remember me.

Well it only took years but Ollie and Rena finally bonded last July. I can't tell you how happy I was about that! It is really lovely to see them all cuddled up. I'm not sure why they suddenly fell in love after ignoring each other for years. We lost our Rabbit Bunny the month before :( We took on two rescues at the beginning of July, they are called Susie and Jojo. We didn't get off to a good start with the new rabbits, they were terrified and came with health issues so the first few weeks they got even more frightened because of having to medicate them. They've settled in nicely now though.

Our mice have all moved on too, the last one made it to 3 years old so we are now a family of 2 people, 2 birds, 2 rabbits.

Ollie had a funny turn towards the start of the year. Scared the hell out of me. One second he was preening Rena, the next his head was fallen to his left. I picked him up and put him on the sofa so he didn't fall whilst I phoned our vet. During the time I was on the phone Ollie collapsed completely and he was struggling to keep his eyes open. He had deteriorated so fast I told my vet we wouldn't make it to the surgery. We did and to my suprise by the time we got to surgery he could stand again. Our vet took him home with him, he improved so much he came home the next day and a few days later it was like nothing had ever happened.

Today Rena is the one scaring me. She seemed fine yesterday. Today she's ripped her chest feathers out and was having trouble breathing. Our own vet was unavailable so we had to go to a non avian out of hours vet to get referred to another practice with an avian vet present. Not got the best first impression of this new vet despite the fact he is very highly regarded but I've had no choice so she's had an x-ray and is Egg bound. I've got no idea what the outcome will be yet except this will be the most expensive vets bill I've ever had in one go. I don't care, I just want her to be ok.

Sorry for coming back on such a bad note.
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marie83
Cockatoo
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 3565
Location: Midlands, UK
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Types of Birds Owned: Yellow sided Green Cheek Conure
Pineapple Green Cheek Conure
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Re: Hello strangers!

Postby Pajarita » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:08 am

Hi, Marie and of course we remember you! At least, I do. My dear, both the neurological episode with Ollie and the eggbinding with Rena point to the same problem: not enough calcium and/or vitamin D3 to absorb it. Please re-evaluate their diet and supplements asap because something is wrong.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Re: Hello strangers!

Postby liz » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:07 am

Welcome back Marie.
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liz
Macaw
 
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Re: Hello strangers!

Postby marie83 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:35 pm

Oh I know I must be getting their chop wrong somewhere. I'm not sure what though as they have lots of calcium foods and a d3 supplement.

Need to get Rena through this first though. She still hasn't passed the egg :(

Nice to see two familiar faces are still here. How are you both? How are your feathered ones & other lets of course?
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marie83
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 3565
Location: Midlands, UK
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Yellow sided Green Cheek Conure
Pineapple Green Cheek Conure
Flight: Yes

Re: Hello strangers!

Postby Pajarita » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:26 am

I've lost a couple of old birds but have since replaced them -not that 'replace' is the right word but their passing had left their mates alone so I had to get them new ones. And I've added a couple more -I had promised myself not to take in anymore birds but a friend of mine contacted me about a lady who had been diagnosed with stage IV breast cancer (spread to lymph nodes) who was desperately looking for a good home for her birds and, as a cancer survivor, I couldn't say no to the poor woman.
But, generally speaking, it's still pretty much the same at my house.

Marie, it's not the chop. Veggies don't have any D3 in them although there are plant foods that do have calcium in them (almonds, sesame seeds, figs, etc), All my birds have cuttlebone in their cages but they also get a multivitamin/mineral supplement twice a week (Tuesdays and Saturday and they get 1.5 daily dosage each day). I've been doing this for many, many years and it has always worked very well (I've never had a single bird eggbound or with hypocalcemia).

I am worried that she still hasn't passed the egg and that your vet has not collapsed it - any particular reason for not doing this? If he doesn't, she is going to end up with bad kidneys for the rest of her life...
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: Hello strangers!

Postby marie83 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:34 pm

Glad to hear all is going well in your house.
I do use calcium and d3 supplements 3 x a week, maybe I should have said getting their diet wrong rather than the chop.

I'm not sure where you read the vets haven't collapsed the egg? They did that as soon as they admitted her because it is huge and should couldn't pass it as it was.

They said to wait 2 - 3 days but we didn't wait for the end of the 3rd day as it had showed no signs of moving. She had to have an operation to remove it.
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marie83
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 3565
Location: Midlands, UK
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Yellow sided Green Cheek Conure
Pineapple Green Cheek Conure
Flight: Yes

Re: Hello strangers!

Postby Pajarita » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:55 am

The reason why I thought that the egg had not been collapsed is that, usually and for what I know, once it's done, they are removed immediately because the birds cannot push them out. I mean, it's like a deflated balloon so even when they do push, there is no resistance (you need a hard surface for the muscles to be able to push it out). I mean, that is the reason why they become eggbound in the first place: because the eggshell is soft and pliant so, if the bird cannot push a soft 'filled-up' round thing out, why would it be able to push a soft deflated round thing out?). Also, normally and, again, for what I know, the removal doesn't really require surgery. It's more an intervention than surgery because it's a matter of 'grabbing' the 'empty bag' with the special little locking 'tweezers' out of the canal and pulling it out.

You are going to need to change your supplements because the ones you are using are not effective. Or maybe it's the medium you are using... Let me explain. The best kind of supplement in terms of vitamins and minerals are the powder ones you add to the soft food BUT, personally, when it comes to D3 and calcium during breeding season, I use the soluble powder one that you add to their water. Why? Because when you add it to the soft food you really have no idea how much of it got into the bird BUT because birds are 'pre-progammed' to drink a certain number of sips, when you add it to their water, they always get the right dosage.

Did your vet tell you that the mild seizure Ollie had was because of low calcium? Did he do an ionized calcium test on him?
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: Hello strangers!

Postby marie83 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:33 pm

Ok the vet treating Rena at the moment said the egg was too far up the tract to be removed safely by guiding it out so it had to be surgery. I don't know as I have never ever had these issues with previous birds so assisted egg removal is not something I've ever had to research. In this case I just had to go along with what the vet said because I didn't get time to research.


When Ollie had his seizure/stroke I expressed concerns with my regular vet that perhaps his diet wasn't quite right and asked about testing his levels. He did say those tests can be inaccurate and to see if there were any further issues as it may not be diet related.


I currently use nutribol calcium & d3, can you recommend something else that might be available in the UK? Anything else I need to be looking into? I have a lamp but the birds never sit under it, it's always as far away as they can - I would need to put them in a much smaller cage for it to have any effect I should think.


My regular vet will be phoning this evening to discuss things further. The one treating Rena just phoned and said she's doing ok after the surgery.
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marie83
Cockatoo
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 3565
Location: Midlands, UK
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Yellow sided Green Cheek Conure
Pineapple Green Cheek Conure
Flight: Yes

Re: Hello strangers!

Postby Pajarita » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:57 am

Well, the regular blood test is inaccurate when it comes to calcium (BUT not when it comes to things like kidney problems which is another common reason for seizures-he did not have a stroke, he had a mild seizure) but the ionized test is not (it's always 100% accurate) and that's why it's done instead of using just the regular chemistry panel. The thing with calcium and birds is that they have the unique ability to move it in and out of their bones and, because the body always strives for homeostasis (it means balance between different physical elements or physiological functions), when they are low in calcium, the body takes it out of the bones so the blood work comes back with a normal level when, in reality, it's too low. The levels of calcium in the 'regular' test also fluctuate during the day and the seasons but not the ionized, that one is always spot on.

Calcium levels are not an easy thing to keep under control because the levels not only fluctuate, in order for the bird to be able to absorb enough, it needs not only vit D3 and some vit K but also needs to be in balance with other minerals (potassium, magnesium and zinc). I use Calciboost which is just vit D3 and calcium for the hens when they lay BUT all my birds get a multivitamin/multimineral supplement (this is the one that I give twice a week at a 1.5 daily dosage each time). I checked the one you mentioned: Nutrobal for birds and found it to be also a mutivitamin/multimineral supplement (I couldn't get the actual nutrition label so I don't know how much of what is in there) so the only thing I can think of is that they are not getting enough because of the way you are offering it as it appears to be the kind that you 'sprinkle' on food and that's not effective in terms of dosage, ESPECIALLY if you free-feed protein food. I would recommend that, from now on, you use the soluble powder in their water to make sure they are getting enough.

I am so glad that she is doing OK!
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes


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