Why are some of us good "bird people"?

[GlassOnion]

Birds have emotions, you can see it especially in Macaws and Cockatoos. If you said this to a macaw/too owner, they would probably flip out in defense. I do think that the Poicephalus are one of the more reserved and cautious species, making it harder to read how they feel.

[Michael]

You can't see emotions!

[liz]

You can see fear. You can see wanting. You can see happy. You can see anger. When Myrtle or Rambo sits on my shoulder and snuggles behind my ear - that is love.

If you can't see their emotions your just not paying close enough attention.

[Michael]

You can't see any of those. They are concepts and not visible things. You're making it up.

[Grey_Moon]

Michael---science is just a new faith. Personally I think it to be your biggest flaw---sometimes you're too much science and not enough heart. You can see and feel the emotions of others if you are in the right mind space.

All things have a 'soul', a center of energy, each centre of energy has a particular feel---thus the individual unique soul. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge it of course depends on the doctrine of which faith you choose to believe---science and atheism included.

Now, about the original question I would concur that some of us are good 'bird' people based on experience, our energy and our personality. I am of an anxious temperament and with the PTSD I tend to be hypervigilant---so I am slow and careful in my movement, extra sure to study the behaviour of the bird. Perhaps it is this mirroring caution and flightiness yet calm that draws birds to us. Maybe they feel we are also prey like them. It could also be those of us like that are sure to offend no one and wish not to impose ourselves on anything so the birds trust us more.

[Rokisha]

If you want to look at it in a scientific point of view michael then even by those standards you can see emotions. A frown is a display of unhappiness, discomfort, ect. A snarl, lowering of ears, ruffle of feathers, and so on all display some form of emotion. How else would you be able to tell if your birds are content? You pay attention to their display ie behavioral patters or whatever you wish to call it right?

[Rokisha]

And sure some people debate about souls, spirits, ect exisiting but in my belief system everything has the life force energy, spirit or soul inside it. It may seem silly in your eyes but it is what I believe which is why I have so much respect for other living beings. That and I don't consider any creature dumb.

[Evie]

This is a really interesting thread. I would theorise that people tend to gravitate towards the animals that they can understand and feel a connection with (on the whole). Of course there is the practicality of keeping some animals as opposed to others and, no doubt, some are drawn by aesthetics initially. I was surprised that Michael didn't feel there was evidence to support the concept of animals being subject to emotions though. The evidence is out there and isn't hard to find (if spending time with the little critters isn't enough to convince you ).

"Now the idea that birds may have a more “encephalised” amygdala is a bit of a poser for those who say birds aren’t emotional."

FROM: http://www.dichotomistic.com/mind_readings_bird.html

[Michael]

I was surprised that Michael didn't feel there was evidence to support the concept of animals being subject to emotions though.

There isn't any solid evidence.

The evidence is out there and isn't hard to find (if spending time with the little critters isn't enough to convince you ).

That's not evidence, it's a belief, guess, assumption, hope, hypothesis, whatever you want to call it.

"Now the idea that birds may have a more “encephalised” amygdala is a bit of a poser for those who say birds aren’t emotional."

I don't say that birds aren't or cannot be emotional but that there is no evidence for this. Therefore we cannot base our interactions or understanding of them based on something that cannot be demonstrated. Training, interaction, etc may possibly appeal to and work with their "emotions" but we wouldn't know that there is emotion to it. This is why I focus on a behavioral approach where I do something and the parrot's behavior confirms the interaction.

Without a doubt there have been times when the parrot's behavior was uncooperative, bitey, moody (changing from one thine to another unpredictably), lethargic, excited, etc. These are observable and comparable to behavior at other times. However, they do not demonstrate emotion. There may simply exist other operant factors we are unaware of, instinct, or physiological changes that trigger these without any existence of emotion whatsoever.

Really, I think the vast majority (or all) of emotion lies on the owner's end and is being projected onto the parrot. Owners want to feel that their effort isn't all for nothing. They want their parrot to be happy and love them back. I can live with knowing that they couldn't give two shits back about me and that they see me as nothing more than a sucker who gives them stuff they want. This is because my love for them is unconditional. It's my own thing and unimpacted by their emotions or lack thereof. I think it's counterproductive to assume or believe that they have emotions because it distracts from more objective approaches that really do find results. Soooo many people will say "my parrots just hates me so it bites all the time," when really all it might take is changing the approach to make being with the person more reinforcing. It doesn't mean the parrot had any feeling toward the person good or bad, but positive reinforcement solved it. Meanwhile assuming it is emotional hatred causes people to give up trying because they think the emotion cannot be changed.

[GlassOnion]

Why Evie, I LOVE that, thanks for the read!