Why are some of us good "bird people"?

[Evie]

Behaviourists are akin to those who believed the world was flat, the sun revolved around the Earth etc. ad infinitum. My son is a psychologist and when I told him about the main points of this discussion he said that relatively recently the behaviourists managed to break EVERY human response down to basic reward/punishment associated behaviours. In their arrogance they must have believed that they were so superior that they were the only ones capable of emotion (or perhaps they were the ones who lacked emotion and therefore were unable to recognise it in others?). Most genocidal atrocities have been carried out by scientific minds in fact. Those without empathy are far more likely to mistreat their fellow humans and animals and you know that science bears this out. I think there is strong argument for Hitler and all other mass murderers being psychotic and probably lacking empathy/normal human emotions. You have skirted around the fact, also, that the emotion centre of the brain of mammals and birds is in the limbic system, the most basic part of the brain. Emotions are primary, indeed necessary in evolutionary terms (how can an animal live effectively in a social group/ rear young without emotion?). It is the cortex that is more developed in humans, as I'm sure you are aware, and since this processes information, allows for complex problem solving etc, I can't see how you would come to the conclusion that birds would lack emotion. I think humans use the word 'instinctive' to further separate themselves from other members of the animal kingdom. There is NO evidence to support the idea that we are any less instinctual than animals. We have to believe that animals are 'instinctive', non-feeling lumps of biological matter in order that we can use and abuse them as we do. So rather than us silly people mis-reading our birds and thinking they are actually displaying emotion can you not entertain the idea that it is YOU who are mis-reading and completely missing the blatant signs that they do feel emotion?

[Rokisha]

I don't really think Michael considers his parrots as mere toys he can use to amuse himself. If he did I'm sure he wouldn't have been so appalled by the petland incident he posted about. That and he wouldn't be so passionate about keeping a parrot flighted. I can tell he does at least hold birds in very high regard.

[Michael]

Gee - it's almost feels like we are talking to Dorp.

I feel sorry for Killi and Truman. If they do not have emotions then they are just eating and breathing toys to amuse you.

They're my pets. They don't have to have emotions for me to love them. I can appreciate them and offer them the best care that I can without expecting any appreciation/love back from them. So if one day it were proven that parrots don't have emotions for sure, would yours become worthless to you???

[Rokisha]

I suppose some people who believe other species have emotions may expect appreciation, love, ect but for others it's more about respect not expectations.

[liz]

To me it has already been proven and can never be disproven.

[SkidRowSennie]

What a beautiful post! Why are some of us bird people? Well, I suppose it's because we're not cat or dog or fish people. I don't mean to sound aloof, but having a parrot as a companion and being good at it requires a certain level of dedication that goes beyond being a mere " pet owner". Dogs are happy to see you after you've been gone all day. Cats will act as if they never noticed you were gone. Parrots; however, will act up and misbehave if you make the slightest change to their routine! They are like toddlers- they demand constant attention, and they won't settle for an absentminded petting while you watch TV. OH NO! They demand eye contact, a conversation, a detailed head petting in which you must know the EXACT location of all new growth feathers and their various stages, because you MUST "get" that last little bit of sheath off a fully grown feather, and God help you if you "get" a brand new pin feather, because you'll get the business end of the beak!

And this is a commitment that lasts for decades. We "bird people" realize we just agreed to care for a "toddler" for 20 years or more! We can't ignore them because we're busy any more than we would ignore a child. It's no wonder so many parrots are abandoned by people who bought them on a whim. You either understand that you have an intelligent little creature that thinks you hung the moon or you don't. It's all or nothing with a parrot.

[marie83]

What a beautiful post! Why are some of us bird people? Well, I suppose it's because we're not cat or dog or fish people.

You can so be a dog,cat, fish or any other creature person at the same time as being a parrot person. As far back as I remember I always loved animals, as a child you wouldn't find me without some sort of animal care book in my hand whether it be dogs, fish or hamsters.I was constantly badgering my parents for a pet, any pet though, I wanted a dog the most and didn't particually have much love for reptiles and fish. To be honest I didn't hold much interest in birds but I suspect that was due to my local libary not having any bird books apart from a basic one on budgies. I finally managed to convince my parents to let me keep hamsters at 10, shortly followed by a dog and finally I was asked to take care of a budgie for two weeks. That budgie never went home, her name was Madison and after I moved out of my parents I started to feel very guilty that she was on her own whilst I was working so along came Jack after hearing off of a friend about the torture he was subjected to, I went to see him and he came home with me. Since then my love for parrots has grown and grown and I think it now holds equal to my love for dogs and other furry creatures. Since those teenage years I've had several other rescue birds, mainly cockatiels and one rosella.
People meeting me now may assume I'm solely a crazy parrot lady but that is because they are the only pets I have at the moment. My love for other species remains just as strong.

[Fridgewithwingss]

~Hey

I love this thread, one of my favourites! Thanks for starting this up.

On the emotions thing, I am not sure I am qualified to comment, not actually having a bird myself (But oh do I want a lovebird!) But I'm somewhere in the middle- I'm not sure they're capable of a vast range of emotions, but they do have the obvious ones- Happiness (When you give them a new toy!) and sadness (when you remove a favourite), and fear and anger. And, of course, the obvious one- Affection (Not technically an emotion, but what is it?) . I've heard it said (Here!) that birds only like you because you bring them food, but that is just not true. Some birds only like men, or only like one person, for no apparent reason, and without emotion how would they be able to make a decision like that? And, of course , all birds have different personalities, that must be indicative of SOME emotional response, right?

For the "Bird People" thing, I'm just going to give you my story. I'm allergic to just about all haired animals, including my own dog and cat, and also I expect Cockatiels. This, obviously, makes me not fond of those types of animals- How could I enjoy being in their company when I know it'll leave me wheezing and tight throated? But that is not the only reason I like, and seem to connect with birds better than any other animal. i think, personally, it is something in their eyes- So much brighter and more inquisitive than most other animals! And, of course, their personalities. There is nothing more fun than seeing a bird hanging upside-down from the top of it's cage, chirping at you. There is nothing more beautiful than a bird in flight. And there is nothing more amusing than watching a bird attack a new toy with a kind of vigour only parrots have! I'm not being mean to mammals, obviously, but they just don't do it for me.

I'm gonna end up with a story. A few weeks ago my cousin got a pair of Kakariki's. She invited me round, knowing full well about my lovebird ambitions. And, I can tell you, nothing- Not even getting my dog as a puppy before I knew he'd soon be off limits an I'd only get the bad bits like clearing up his poop, without the cuddling that my parents and sister enjoy- stirred my heart more than the first time I slowly put my arm out for that bird, and she stepped up without hesitation, looked at me with her head cocked to one side, then began to nibble at my bracelets. I can honestly say that it was the happiest I'd been in a long time. If I'd had any doubts about wanting a lovebird, the second that bird jumped onto my wrist every single one vanished.

[KimberlyAnn]

Our homes become a sort of rain forest, we decide the weather using the steam from our showers, we create rain for baths, we are the ants that carry away the mess, we search for their foraging obstacles, wabusive ld the trees out of pvc and we are their mates for life.

And we do all this, knowing that we will have to do it all again tomorrow.

I was just reading back and just love this quote! It's so true!

I'm kinda a cat person, but my husband is not and is very allergic. But I'm a cat person because I love to have animals in my home that have strong personalities and can make their own choices. I want them to choose when they want to be alone so that it means so much more when they decide they want to be with me.

I think it all comes down to how I view respect and boundries. Growing up, I lived in hippy country. Lol Santa Cruz, California. We were taught respect, love, boundries, and trust. But like the first poster, I was once in a very abusive situation, but in my first marriage and I had my values tested every single day. I'm glad I got our of that situation and learned from it. Grew even stronger then I was before. I've come to appreciate the things I learned as a child, when before...I guess I never thought about it much. But it's what has made my second marriage wonderful. I could not be happier.

I think I would love any animal that shares my home. It just so happens we have a bird now. One with a huge personality! It's natural for me to learn all I can to take care of her so she will have the best life possible. So do I consider myself a bird person or a cat person? Not really. A caring person? A respectful person? A person people can trust? Yes! It's something I strive to be every day.

[KimberlyAnn]

I also just read the emotion debate. In my studies in psychology, I learned several theories on this subject as you do when studying psychology. As a subject, it's an ever changing one, as is general medicine.

In medicine, we humans test on animals before we use anything on humans. I'm not saying this is right, it's just what happens. In psychology, animals are also used to better understand a huge range of things, one of them is emotion.

Yes, there is the bond Vs. attachment debate. Generally they say that humans feel attachment and animals bond, but there are instances where there are very grey areas in that.

From my ongoing studies (As long as I work in Early Childhood Education, I will need to keep going back to school...things change every few years) I'm pretty certain that animals feel a range of emotion. In a psychology class, you hear the theories and see the studies...you leave thinking one way or the other. For me, I found that there was enough evidence to show that some animals do have emotions of some kind. We don't know the level of emotion they have because we can only see behavior and have a HUGE language barrier. If only animals could speak human language in depth! We would have a lot of questions answered.

There was a time when more dominant humans felt like other humans did not have souls or emotions. Obviously, that is very wrong with how we view emotions and what we think they are.

The definition of emotion is this:

"Any strong agitation of the feelings actuated by experiencing love, hate, fear, etc., and usually accompanied by certain physiological changes, as increased heartbeat or respiration, and often overt manifestation, as crying or shaking."

I see this in my Conure. I've seen this in many of my pets. If emotion is feeling something and acting on it, I don't see how they are emotionless. The more we study animal brains and how they work, I'm confident we will learn, not if they have emotions, but how they feel emotions and learn more about how this happens on a cognitive level. I've seen enough studies in class to know that there is something there. Plus it helps having a range of teachers to show you a range of theories and studies. Years in college have taught me that professors are 99% for what they believe is true and 1% of what they think they can disprove in class. Lol Not their fault! That's human nature and I respect that you teach what you believe based on what information you have been given and how you understand it.

The great soul debate, that's a HUGE discussion about religion. I think there is more scientific evidence that animals feel emotion, then if people have souls. Lol They can already tell that some animals use the part of the brain where emotions come from, but you can't open up someone and see their soul.