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[mrsrenegade]

Hi, everyone! I'm a fairly new bird owner of a 12yo Ducorps Cockatoo named Dunders. We sort of fell into ownership of him a year ago. He is a plucker, a trait learned from being with the original owner. I understand he has endured abuse and neglect from this person. I am very bonded with him, but he bit me in the face pretty badly 2 days ago. It has been traumatizing for me, and I'm trying to deal with this issue. I would be interested in hearing others' stories or insight on this. I can't stand the thought of giving him up, I just love him too much.

[pennyandrocky]

I adopted a plucking/chewing 7 year old 2 years ago. she used to bite me until she got her flights back. I still don't trust her near my face that will take a few more years even though she hasn't drawn blood on me in over a year she still bruises me when i'm not giving her the attention she wants. the other day I was on my hands and knees scrubbing floors and put my arm on the couch to balance when she decided to grab my arm with her beak. diet helped too and a rigid schedule she knows what time she gets up, goes to bed and what time she expects dinner if i'm late with any of it she get's nippy or screams.

[Pajarita]

P&R is correct, a steady routine is essential to keeping a parrot content. Keeping them to a strict solar schedule and switching to a lower protein diet during the winter months keeps them from becoming sexually frustrated (one of the main causes of biting and feather destruction behavior in parrots). Lastly, learning their body language keeps you from getting bit.

I have gotten bit in every single part of my body over the years and I got a nice US quarter size bruise in the back of my right arm from an amazon bite two days ago (he is a wild-caught, was used as a breeder all his life before coming here and has a mate now). It was my fault because I got too close to his platform without realizing he was perching there and he got his comeuppance anyway because as soon as I shook him off, my CAG, my sun conure and a quaker ganged up on him for biting me -LOL

Now, bites are very traumatic to us. We are conditioned to think of bites as always aggression which is never justified but this is because all our 'animal behavior parameters' are related to domesticated companion animals which have been with us for thousands and thousands of years (dogs, cats), but parrots are not domesticated and their ways of doing things is completely different than what we think it's OK so you need to look at things from their perspective and not ours. For one thing, not all bites are born of aggression, some are just warnings (like when a parrot would bite his/her mate when there is danger), some are a 'leave me alone', some are a 'this is mine!', some are retaliation for doing something we are not supposed to (like show love to another being -doesn't have to be another bird, it could be your child or your spouse), etc. It's not their fault that we are such defective birds and don't have a thick layer of plumage protecting us.

Another thing to take into consideration is that when you are talking about a large parrot and its beak, you are talking about a HUGE amount of strength and potential MAJOR trauma if the bird actually wanted to hurt us - they might not be as big as a U2 but a Ducorps can still easily bite the nose off your face, if he wanted to...

Last but not least, although spring is gone, toos tend to nest also in the fall and, for what I've seen in my birds, it comes earlier and earlier every year so he might be getting hormonal -and, if you haven't been keeping him to a strict solar schedule and/or free-feeding his protein source, he could very well be sexually frustrated.

So, re-evaluate your husbandry to see if there is anything there that needs improvement and try to objectively review everything that happened before and during the episode and see if you can figure out why he bit you because contrary to what most people say, there is always a reason, and, when you figure it out, you can avoid it.

[mrsrenegade]

Thank you so much for your quick replies! I have thought about the scenario over and over, and I know there were a few reasons why he acted out...my husband and I went to a concert the night before, and when we came home, the lights were all off in Dunders' room. Not wanting to wake him, I didn't check to make sure my daughter covered his cage and closed the curtain. When I woke the next morning, I was dismayed to see these things were not done, so he didn't get as much sleep as he normally does.

Also, when I took him out of his cage shortly before he bit me, I realized it was dinnertime and he was probably hungry. A couple of good songs came on the radio, and I was dancing with him on my arm and singing to him. These are things he usually enjoys, as he seemed to this time, dancing right along with me. I didn't get the usual warnings. He just jumped from my arm to my face and latched on without making a sound. When he fell to the floor, he acted just as happy as he was a second before. He can't fly, but I think if he was just trying to steady himself he wouldn't have bit so hard and caused so much bleeding.

This incident has made me second guess many things I do to take care of him and train him. I feel like such a novice now, like when I first got him. He is my first parrot, and he came with some definite psychological baggage. Everyone says he's come such a long way, and they can't believe how close a relationship we have. I could turn him upside down, and we taught him a few tricks. We own a retail store, and he goes with me to work often.

I used to let him just hang out on my shoulder (I know it's not a good idea), and last night I decided to try to change his step-up method from my arm (he's always done this) to my hand and he bit me angrily on the hand. I know my arm always leads to my shoulder, and I'm not okay with that now.

Do you guys think it's possible to retrain habits that an older parrot has grown up with? My husband thinks he's too psycho and that maybe we'd be better off with another bird. The problem is I don't want another bird, I want my psycho Dunders.

[Pajarita]

Well, you can't go by me because I allow all my birds on my shoulder. I don't ask them to perch there and I only put two of them (the ones that live in human areas and not in the birdroom) but, if they want to go there, they are allowed -even the ones that are aggressive (I believe in giving animals the benefit of the doubt). The reason why people said it was a bad idea was because of the theory of Height Dominance which has been debunked for years.

And you already know the reasons why he bit you:

1. You had not 'tucked' him in the night before
2. He was tired/sleepy
3. He was hungry

Three main reasons for biting in a hormonal bird (and toos are hormonal this time of the year -even when you keep them to a strict solar schedule and watch their protein intake like a hawk).

And yes, of course that 'old' birds learn new tricks. I was just telling a previous owner about her VERY aggressive wild-caught 30 year old Amazon (he sent her to the ER three times in two years) that he no longer shows any aggression with me and goes into the high perch in 'his' cage (my birds are not caged but there are a couple of them in the birdroom for whichever birds wants to go in and chill in them for a while) and waits for me to clean and put fresh food and water and, when I am done, he calmly climbs down to eat without a single display -he is also taking food from my hands without even pinning his eyes. It's all a matter of keeping them attuned with the seasons (to avoid sexual frustration), keeping their routines always the same (breakfast and dinner time been sacred!) and watching their body language.

Now you know what you did wrong so it's just a matter of not doing the same thing again.

[cml]

The reason why people said it was a bad idea was because of the theory of Height Dominance which has been debunked for years.

Actually I dont think so Pajarita, most members here on the forums dont believe in that at all.

But, most are still against parrots on the shoulder anyway (myself included, even though I love having my parrots there, they are not allowed).
This is because of the injury risk, which is quite high, even with a tame parrot.


If a parrot gets spooked or is agressive, they may bite without meaning to, and that may cause serious harm as they are in close proximity of your face, ears and worst - eyes.

You may lose a chunk of your ear, or in worst case get blind from an unintended bite.

Ive been lucky, Stitch has only ever bitten me in the lip with no lasting damage, but he's not allowed on my shoulders, and he's not an aggressive bird.

[Shelby]

I think you should take a step back and do some more training/taming exercizes with him. Clicker train him ( if he isn't already). Then Go through Michael's target training guide in his taming article: www.trainedparrot.com/taming

He may have bitten your hand because some birds are a little bit scared of stepping up onto hands if that's not what they're used to. A lot of bites are more from fear/discomfort than sheer agression. And I agree that right now, with him being a bit bitey lately, it is probably not safe to allow him on your shoulder whenever he wants. It's good that you were able to analyze the first incident and identify some factors which may have caused the bite.

Good luck!

[Pajarita]

The reason why people said it was a bad idea was because of the theory of Height Dominance which has been debunked for years.

Actually I dont think so Pajarita, most members here on the forums dont believe in that at all.

But, most are still against parrots on the shoulder anyway (myself included, even though I love having my parrots there, they are not allowed).
This is because of the injury risk, which is quite high, even with a tame parrot.


If a parrot gets spooked or is agressive, they may bite without meaning to, and that may cause serious harm as they are in close proximity of your face, ears and worst - eyes.

You may lose a chunk of your ear, or in worst case get blind from an unintended bite.

Ive been lucky, Stitch has only ever bitten me in the lip with no lasting damage, but he's not allowed on my shoulders, and he's not an aggressive bird.

People who think that a parrot which perches on your shoulder can, all of a sudden, become aggressive and do great damage have never had to deal with a truly aggressive parrot. Parrots that hate/fear/distrust/dislike you would never perch on your shoulder. Not of their own initiative, they would not. They will watch you like a hawk, they will bite you if you intrude in their personal space or with their bonded mates and they might fly out to attack you when you get too close to their 'territory' during breeding season but they will not fly out to perch on you. Why would they? They don't want to have anything to do with you and, as far as they are concerned, if they never saw you again, that would be just fine with them.

Parrots are not naturally aggressive. They are not predators and they don't have a hierarchical society so aggression is not a necessary trait for their survival, ergo, it doesn't exist. That's the way that nature works, very specifically and very thrifty: if you don't need it, you don't get it. Parrots are also highly social and develop deep bonds of love/companionship/dependency with their mates, flock mates and family and it's precisely this trait that has made them so attractive to humans because they also establish these bonds with us. Furthermore, they never harm their mates -it happens in captivity but it doesn't happen in the wild- and they only kill or abandon their babies when it's in the flock/species/family/babies best interest in the long run. Parrots love very deeply... And that's why they like to perch on our shoulders: because they want to get as close as possible to us. They know the eyes are the windows of the soul, they know your mouth is the equivalent to their beak and physical closeness is essential to them so the shoulder is and always will be their first choice. Ergo, any parrot that flies to your shoulder is always looking for friendship, companionship, love, security, closeness, etc. and not to get close enough so he can chomp a chunk out of you. Now, as to parrots that bite you when on your shoulder... well, in my personal opinion and experience (and I have A LOT of experience getting bit -LOL), this is always caused by some type of a breakdown in communication between parrot and human and/or the human's inability to read either the parrot or the situation correctly. Problem is, most people don't really deal with parrots correctly because their behavior parameters and triggers are nothing like what we are used to (mammal domesticated species). It's not that they don't care or that they don't put the work into it, it's that not everybody is able to step out of the 'behavior box' and accurately judge a situation from an avian perspective... it's just too alien to us. And, if you don't 'see' clearly what the problem is, you can't correct it. Mind you, the correction is not for the bird but for the human because, when a parrot bites you, it's not the parrot that failed, it's you! And that's another big hurdle when it comes to this problem! We, humans, change everything around us to accommodate our needs but, with parrots, it's the other way around, you need to change in order to accommodate them!

I always try to be fair to my animals because, to me, they are not my pets and objects of entertainment, they are my companions so I give them the respect I would give another human being - and the way I see it is that if a parrot bites me, I did something wrong, missed something or misjudged the situation and, if it is my fault and not the parrot's, why should he be penalized and denied the comfort he needs to be really happy?

[cml]

I have a lot of respect for you Pajarita, and your experience, but there are some things I feel I need to reply to. Dont take it the wrong way, because I think you are a nice person and a great contributor to this forum .

People who think that a parrot which perches on your shoulder can, all of a sudden, become aggressive and do great damage have never had to deal with a truly aggressive parrot. Parrots that hate/fear/distrust/dislike you would never perch on your shoulder. Not of their own initiative, they would not. They will watch you like a hawk, they will bite you if you intrude in their personal space or with their bonded mates and they might fly out to attack you when you get too close to their 'territory' during breeding season but they will not fly out to perch on you. Why would they? They don't want to have anything to do with you and, as far as they are concerned, if they never saw you again, that would be just fine with them.

Actually, according to my own experience with my own two parrots, years of reading of other people's problems and experiences and from knowing and talking to alot of bird people, I can say I disagree.

Parrots may become spooked, and bite unintentionally. Especially if they've previously had any kind of biting problems.

Parrots are not naturally aggressive. They are not predators and they don't have a hierarchical society so aggression is not a necessary trait for their survival, ergo, it doesn't exist. That's the way that nature works, very specifically and very thrifty: if you don't need it, you don't get it. Parrots are also highly social and develop deep bonds of love/companionship/dependency with their mates, flock mates and family and it's precisely this trait that has made them so attractive to humans because they also establish these bonds with us. Furthermore, they never harm their mates -it happens in captivity but it doesn't happen in the wild- and they only kill or abandon their babies when it's in the flock/species/family/babies best interest in the long run. Parrots love very deeply..

I fully agree, but many animals that are not agressive, and are not predators lash out as a defense when spooked or agitated. In my opinion that can cover birds as well, both in the wild (for example like seagulls when you get too close to a nest, they will defend their young when you agitate them by being too close.)

Ergo, any parrot that flies to your shoulder is always looking for friendship, companionship, love, security, closeness, etc. and not to get close enough so he can chomp a chunk out of you. Now, as to parrots that bite you when on your shoulder... well, in my personal opinion and experience (and I have A LOT of experience getting bit -LOL), this is always caused by some type of a breakdown in communication between parrot and human and/or the human's inability to read either the parrot or the situation correctly.

I agree partially, its often because of a communication breakdown, such as if they want attention and bite/nip you because of it, but not always. Especially if a parrot has had biting problems in the past, then nipping an ear because it gets a reaction can be a fun thing for a parrot, and we sure as hell know why they do it when thats the case - its just a risk and something you need to work on minimizing with training.

Mind you, the correction is not for the bird but for the human because, when a parrot bites you, it's not the parrot that failed, it's you! And that's another big hurdle when it comes to this problem! We, humans, change everything around us to accommodate our needs but, with parrots, it's the other way around, you need to change in order to accommodate them!
I agree fully with the first bit, as the responsibility of their care is the owners (or companion if you want to be fancy). The fault is yours, because we need to teach, train and learn to read our feathered friends.

The second bit, well I agree, Ive changed alot of my life and my appartment has soooo many parrot adaptions its crazy. I recently re-did the entire living room, removing all loose cords into splines on the wall etc so its parrot proof, in addition to lots of other things there as well.
Did I re-decorate like the amazonas? No. I cant live with a humidity and temp that high, and I wouldnt be healthy or happy. The best parent/parront is a happy parront.
I make sure their environment is healthy, safe and fun - but me and my wife co-inhabit our appartment with our two parrots. We need to function here as well.
The bird room is even more adapted to the birds (you can tell from the name eh ^^).

I know you do some things I disagree with, like the temperature, and your solar schedule which you always talk about. I dont keep mine on a solar schedule but manage their day rhytm with electrical timers and completely light blocking blinds. Unless you have open windows you wont get any difference from letting the sun light up their room, and my birds benefit greatly from our routine. It allows me to spend much more time with them, and they are only alone for 5 hours max during a day. They also get 12 hours good uninterupted sleep in a DARK room.

I always try to be fair to my animals because, to me, they are not my pets and objects of entertainment, they are my companions so I give them the respect I would give another human being - and the way I see it is that if a parrot bites me, I did something wrong, missed something or misjudged the situation and, if it is my fault and not the parrot's, why should he be penalized and denied the comfort he needs to be really happy?

I am sure you can make your parrot happy by doing other things than allowing them on your shoulder.
I suggest training and taming etc on a daily basis, as well as outings in either a carrier or a harness.