Thinking of getting a Senegal .

[Ken-S]

Hi All
On 21 Dec we had our Blue and Gold Sam put to sleep after a long struggle with Aspergillosis it was a very difficult decision to take but we knew the time had come and we did not want him to suffer any longer. I said I would not get another bird but the house is so quiet, there is nobody to great you in the mornings or when you return home and I have found myself watching parrot videos on my lap top most afternoons. I have decided (I think) that I would like a smaller bird and did think of going back to the Avery birds I kept before we got Sam in 2000 but although they are fun to watch and even bread you don't get the interaction you do from a parrot.
I suppose my question is am I going to get the same or very simile interaction from a Senegal or do I have to get one of the smaller macaws. I will not be rushing into any purchase in the near future as I don't want to find out in a few months I have made the wrong decision and has to put a bird through the upheaval of re-homing it just because I could not hold on a few weeks until I am sure a Senegal is the right choice.
Any views or thoughts will be much appreciated.
Cheers Ken S

[Michael]

Sorry to hear about your macaw. But if I may ask out of curiosity, was the disease caused by peanuts? Or something else?

As for a Senegal... I would say going macaw to Senegal is a difficult but not impossible step. By comparison things will happen faster, there will be less warning prior to bite, and the bird can be quite a handful. Senegals tend to bond only to one person while macaws are more flock oriented. A Senegal can be cuddly and well socialized but that doesn't mean it won't prefer one person anyway. A Senegal is not a "family bird." But it does serve well and probably better as an only bird. I think they'd far rather be alone with their human than see another bird or Senegal for as long as they should live. Here are some Senegal resources to help get you started:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=348
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=768
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1528
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1905
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1061
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8704
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8716

[Ken-S]

Hi Michael
Thanks for your quick reply, we have not been able to put it down to any one thing unfortunately. I did put new perches into his flight from our own plumb tree and the bark was rough so not easy to clean and with hindsight it would have been better to remove the bark. I had given him some fresh walnuts that had not been dried and were fresh out of their husks, we were also using a seed mix form a different suppler. ALL have now been disposed of. The flight does have a roof so I don't think it was introduced by wild birds but we have had a problem with mice so that is also a possibility.

Sam was a family bird so the one person bird will be a problem as the bird will be a pet for both myself and my wife and I did think that getting a pair may be an option but you seem to be saying this option may not work and the reason for posting on here is to tap into the experience of the members on here and a;so I have seen very few if any videos of pairs of Senegals as pets. So I may be looking for a different species. I am thinking of a bird from Africa on the recommendation of our avian vet.
Cheers Ken S

[Michael]

Why Africa? I'd say most of the African Parrots are the more aggressive and less multi-people friendly. Does that mean they can't be great pets? No. But it means you are much less likely to just get what you want off the bat. You know why you see so few Senegal pairs? Cause they fricken HATE each other. You put two Senegals in a cage and one will most likely turn up dead. If by chance they love each other, you'll turn out dead. It's the application of that single person thing. Other Pois are similar.

I visit Ginger's Parrots rescue and they have over 10 Senegals and not one of them gets along with any other. BTW I hope you're getting a rescue in your case. Not only because of what happened but also because you have a better shot at finding a bird that likes both/all family members! You bring everyone to the rescue together and find the bird that gets along with everybody. That's a good indication that things will work out whereas you get a baby that is naively sweet (Senegals start this way) but then turn nasty to all but one. With a rescue, typically what you see is what you get. Or what you see is as bad as it will be and it can only get better. So if you like what you see, you're onto something.

African Greys aren't so much one person birds as introverts, frights, and difficult. A Cape Parrot may be an option but you won't find one in a rescue and they have their own issues. Coming from a macaw I'm not sure you'd like one and may find the personality a bit difficult. Since having my macaw a week, I've found the macaw to be way more predictable and easy to read than my Cape for 3 years.

Frankly I think you're best to get off of Africa and go back to South America. The more flock oriented, universally friendly kinds birds tend to come from there (or Australia but you don't want a cockatoo). Perhaps a Conure. I guess post more of what you're looking for in general.

[Pajarita]

I am not saying this to make you feel bad but as a heads up because you are planning on getting another parrot. Aspergillosis is caused by stress, period. Now, let me clarify this. Aspergillus, the fungus that causes the disease, is ubiquitous in nature, it's on our skin, our food, our furniture, the soles of our shoes and the air we breathe, it's EVERYWHERE! But, unless an animal has been exposed to large doses of it for a long time (as in eating nothing but moldy seed for months), it doesn't catch the disease because the immune system takes care of it. When a bird develops the incurable form of aspergillosis, it's always because there is stress. Whether the stress is physical (as in the animal or person having an auto-immune condition or another infectious disease) or psychological doesn't matter because both depress the immune system to the point that it cannot keep the fungus from proliferating and becoming a disease. Now, I understand that you put your bird down because of the aspergillosis but what worries me is that your vet did not dig deeper to find out why the bird could not get rid of it or why the medicines could not keep it under control (there are cases when birds live under emotional stress and cannot quite get rid of it completely but the medicines and supplements keep the titers low - for example, the famous Alex suffered from chronic aspergillosis from the stress of his living conditions but it wasn't aspergillosis that killed him).

As to your question, senegals and blue and golds are day and night and the same can be said about mini-macaws that behave more like a conure than a large macaw so, if you are looking to get the same kind of relationship you had with your bird - which, would not have been typical as sick birds are much, much, much more mellow and, taking into consideration that B&Gs are the mellowest parrots to begin with while senegals are little firecrackers, you will find that the difference is HUGE. Having said that, nothing is impossible and if you know beforehand (rescue/adopt an adult bird) what you are getting into, you could do wonderfully with one. But, if I were you, I would go with a female rather than a male, they are sweeter-tempered.

[Harpmaker]

If you are set on a family poi, you might be better off with a Meyer's parrot. They are normally less territorial than Senegals, so proper socialization is easier, but still required.

[Ken-S]

Hi Pajarita
I have kept birds for some time (about 20 years) and we had Sam from 2000 at about 6 months old, He had a 12foot by 8 foot outside flight but came in every afternoon into a cage that was open in the living room or on his stand but was kept overnight in a cage in the conservatory. Before he showed signs of the illness we cannot pinpoint any reasons that he was stressed. The very first visit to the vet bloods were done, the bird was scoped and swabs were taken from the Tricia. Cultures were grown and a broad spectrum antibiotic was administered. He was X-rayed and his lungs were clear When the results came back the antibiotic were were using was deemed to be the best to use. As he was sill not getting any better and he was loosing weight we went back to the vet and a camera was passed down his windpipe and the growth was much worse X-rays were again taken and both his lungs were infected, more samples from the windpipe and bloods were sent of for cultures to be grown but he deteriorated over next few days so we decided to have him put to sleep as he was fighting for breath and was exhausted.
The vet did a full ortopsy and confirmed his previous findings but said he had never seen it this aggressive and he has been an avian vet all his life practising in South Africa, Dubai and the UK. As I said earlier there was no change in Sam's behaviour to either my wife or myself he just seemed to go off his food and then all of a sudden had breathing problems. Sam was a very health bird and has only ever given us cause for concern once before and that was when we took the pond out of the conservatory and he had a discharge from his nostrils? (Don't know the correct term) and it was decided it may have been because of the change in the humidity so he had a humidifier from then on, this was about 10 years ago. His yearly veterinary MOT always came back OK.

The only stress factor that I feel we could change would be to let him sleep more because he seemed happy to be out on his stand until 2100 hours most nights but being in the conservatory (very light no blinds) in the summer dawn is early and we did not account for this so got much less than 12 hours sleep but it is winter here at the moment so this is not a factor in this case.

"if you are looking to get the same kind of relationship you had with your bird - which, would not have been typical as sick birds are much, much, much more mellow and, taking into consideration that B&Gs are the mellowest parrots to begin with while Senegals are little firecrackers," As I said earlier we had Sam from about 5 or 6 months old and he has been easy to handle except for occidentally brushing his feather sheaths (he lets you know it hurts ) and he would NOT let you cut his claws, he was not a very good washer (except in thunderstorms) he would hang on the wall of the flight getting soaking wet, I never did understand the difference between that and the shower but would tolerate being misted if he had to.
I am looking for something similar to what we had with Sam and I do realise that a smaller bird is going to be different but the companionship and love given and accepted is what we are after, so it looks like Senegal's are not the type of bird we are looking for.

I have to say in the UK there does not seem to be the same rescue centre type set up as in the USA and the only way I can see of getting a bird this way is through the small adds in the papers or on the internet and I am a bit reluctant to do this because I think it is the opposite of what has been said on here in that you do NOT know what you are getting, I would love to go visit a couple of times and check the bird and its owner out but I don't think that will be an option over here, I think its going to be a case of "Give me the money and here is your bird" I may be wrong and may be I should investigate it a lot more before making assumptions but using a breeder that I have had a bird from before and who looks after my bird when we are on holiday is a much safer bet.
Cheers Ken S

[Pajarita]

Ahhhh, he had an aspergilloma! Yes, it's more difficult to treat than the 'regular' aspergillosis because you don't usually see symptoms until the growth is big and, because surgery is required (you simply cannot cure it with medicine as it doesn't seem to penetrate the walls) if, by the time it's discovered, the bird is too weak, there is nothing that can be done. Was your bird clipped or not clipped but, for some reason, not flighted? Because, in my personal and not scientific opinion (I have no veterinary training, just a bit of experience, an insatiable curiosity, a good memory and lots of books -LOL), symptoms of any disease are noticed earlier when the birds fly because the very first thing you would notice is an unexplained shortness of breath after a short flight. And lack of flight does stress birds both physically and emotionally. It's water under the bridge now but if your bird did not fly, you might want to consider allowing your new one full flight.

Now, going back to your original question, have you considered a Jardine or a Pionus? I have a Black Wing Lesser Jardine and had a Bronze Winged Pionus and find them to be the calmest and most cuddle of the medium size species. Not quite like a B&G, you understand, but they can compare quite well to them in terms of temperament and they are much smaller.

[cml]

Now, going back to your original question, have you considered a Jardine or a Pionus? I have a Black Wing Lesser Jardine and had a Bronze Winged Pionus and find them to be the calmest and most cuddle of the medium size species. Not quite like a B&G, you understand, but they can compare quite well to them in terms of temperament and they are much smaller.

I agree with Pajarita, Pionuses are great birds. Leroy (Bronse winged pionus) is very thoughtful, gentle and easy to read - much more so than Stitch, our White fronted amazon.

He's NOT cuddly though ! I do get to scratch him every now and then, but its always on his terms !
Stitch on the other hand is a complete cuddle bug, much more than you normally read about amazons.

I suggest you visit a few different species to see which one is a good match, perhaps at rescues? But take any chance you get, try shops and breeders as well to get a good feel for which species is right for you!