Hello from Boston

[Pajarita]

I absolutely agree that lab-made vitamins are not anywhere as good as the natural food-derived ones BUT I do give my birds a multivitamin/mineral supplement once or twice a week and I have done it daily with birds that have had a bad diet for a long time. The way I look at it is that, although a good diet will end up providing most of the nutritional needs, when you are talking about a bird that has not had a good diet in a long time, you are talking about a bird that is suffering from avitaminosis AND a bird that is not used to eating a good diet -and we all know that means a couple of years of trying hard to achieve- so, as I want to get results reasonably fast in order to make the field more level for the bird, I give it a good diet AND the multivitamin/mineral supplement. Not for long, mind you, but enough so I don't worry that something is going to collapse in their body...

[Wolf]

I hear you. Even my avian vet books say not to supplement pellets with additional vitamins and minerals, and I will admit that they may be dated but in all likelihood pretty much what most vets go by at this time. Most of the vitamins and minerals used in pellets are artificial and that does make them less effective, but I still think that using the gloop as a means of providing the natural vitamins and minerals that she needs is the best way to proceed. That is just my opinion, but I would think that with alli of the problems that Tanya is dealing with and the frequency of the blood work being done with her that the vet should be able to tell you what her current nutritional levels are and if you need to increase one or more of them. The newest recommendations that I have been able to find only recommend that the diet consist of 20 to 30 percent of the total diet, so I would think that 2 TBs. would be a pretty good amount of pellets for her. Mimi, YNA, only eats maybe 3 TBS, of gloop in a days time and then not more than a couple of TBS. of seeds for dinner.

[Navre]

My daughter comes home from school today. I hope she gets along with Tanya!

[Wolf]

Apparently, Pajarita posted while I was typing my last response to you. Pajarita uses her supplements either in the gloop or in the water and although they are less effective than natural vitamins and minerals they would still provide a significant boost for the birds receiving them in this manner. The ones that are added to seeds are largely worthless as they are coating the part that the bird does not eat and those that are in the pellets they get every time that you feed them and that may just be a bit too much, although I really can't say for certain about those in pellets.

[Pajarita]

Correct. I use the powder one that dilutes in water for the canaries, finches, cardinals and quails and the powder ones that go on food for the parrots. The main reason why I do this is to provide D3 but the 'closing loopholes' in their diet is also important because, as well as my birds eat, they do have their favorites and, with the exception of the cockatoos and the amazons, the others don't eat every single thing I give them. One of the problems with the pellets in terms of vitamins is that they provide D3 every day and canary breeders have always said this should never be done because, sometimes, it makes the bird lose the ability to move calcium in and out of their bones. Now, I've never found a single study or scientific reference to this but I do know of birds that have been on Harrison's all their lives and end up eggbound - something that could prove that they were right all along. It's really worth your time listening to old canary breeders because, although they might not know the scientific reason behind things, the collective experience of thousands and thousands of them over 500 years is nothing to sneer at.

[Navre]

Even old wives tales are worth considering, because old wives have kept the species going for hundreds of thousands of years.

[Pajarita]

Yes, indeed! Same as old home remedies! They are now finding out that they do work - like chicken soup when you have a cold or the flu, for example.

[Navre]

Ocean flew on to me today and bit the hell out of my neck and hear. My hand, too, when I tried to take her off.

I took my shirt off and put it, along with the bird, on the floor. She climbed up my leg and did it again.

She's in her cage now, covered. I don't know how long to leave her there.

[Wolf]

Ocean is jealous, how sweet ! I do not use the cage to correct my birds for biting me, either covered or not. Isolation is probably the cruelest thing that one can do to someone that is never supposed to be alone. Now, I know that this is not your intent, but it does not change the effects of doing this. When ever my bird bites, usually Kiki Senegal who always removes chunks of flesh when she bites, I immediately place her on the nearest surface that is safe for her and refuse to talk to or interact with her for 5 minutes And then we go from there.
Sometime we just don't think about things like what to do about biting before it happens which leaves us open to over reacting, from the birds perspective. They are so different than us in many ways and it can be hard to learn to look at things through their eyes. I am sure that Ocean tried to warn you that you were making her jealous but we don't speak bird very well. Try to consider Ocean as a child with a phobia about being alone. Hope this is helpful.

[Navre]

I went and got her out of the cage and had her sit with me for a while. She was fine. As soon as I walked back toward the cage she started biting me hard, again. It's pretty impressive the amount of damage she can do at 70 grams.