Parrotlet breeding

[Pajarita]

Let me clarify a couple of misconceptions you have.

1. Can birds breed all year round? Yes, they can but only when they are exposed to breeding triggers all year round and this only happens in captivity because we control 100% of their environment. It never happens in nature. NEVER. In the wild, birds have a resting season (in temperate climates, it corresponds to the winter). But there aren't two seasons, either. Birds take a number of weeks to achieve full breeding condition and these weeks are spent in courtship and nest building. Then comes the laying, incubating and raising of young. There could be one or two clutches per breeding season but, after them, most birds go into molt (this is where we are now, in molt) and then into the resting season as the days get shorter and the food supply dwindles or the weather turns inclement (even in the tropics, the birds have seasons).

2. Does taking the nest box automatically stop the process? No, it doesn't. It helps because having an adequate nest is a breeding trigger but it doesn't stop them overnight. In order for birds to stop producing sexual hormones, you need to keep them at a solar schedule, exposing
them fully to dawn and dusk because this will tune their bodies to the local seasons and allow for all their biorhythms to be in synchronization with nature, as they evolved to be. When you have birds that have been kept at a human light schedule (lights on before the sun is out and after it sets), it takes longer because the endocrine system is screwed up and it takes a while for it to go back to where it should be. Just to give you an idea, I once took in a 9 year old show and breeding female lovebird (a gorgeous lutino longfeather which had won every single show she had been entered in three states) that had become a chronic layer and it took me an entire year to get her back in tune with the seasons. It was that gradual.

3. I am not a parrot breeder and, as far as I know, there are no breeders on this board. I breed canaries (Spanish Timbrados) on occasion and have been involved in bird keeping for over 50 years, in parrot keeping and breeding canaries for over 20 and I do a lot of research so I've learned a bit about bird husbandry and it's this experience and learning that I share with others here.

4. You took offense to my telling you 'to do yourself and your birds a favor' but you said you had mourned the loss of your previous female, a death that was directly caused by your lack of knowledge in birds physiology (I've never had a single chronic or off-season layer or an eggbound female in the 24 years I've been breeding canaries), a lack that did not appear to have been corrected because, going by your posting, you are trying to breed off season and with a hen that only 5 months ago was in bad shape. This is recipe for heartache, my dear. Your heartache. Birds don't get to be in top shape 5 months after been in bad shape. Good breeders (not everybody is a good breeder) will tell you that the bird needs to be not only physically mature (and that means 2 years old -their second season- because although small species are sexually mature at 8 months of age, to breed them on their first breeding season would be like allowing a 12 year old girl to have babies) but also in excellent shape. Again, just to give you an idea of what I mean, when I buy a canary hen I plan on breeding, I acquire her, at the very least, 6 to 8 months before the next breeding season because you need to know FOR A FACT that she is not only 100% healthy but also that she has had an excellent diet and supplements (like calcium and D3) for quite a while as well as 6 months of flying prior breeding (they need to fly to develop the muscles they use for laying).

Now, the endocrine system does not have an on/off switch so everything takes time and, when you are talking about a system that has been overworking for months, you need to give it time to go back to where it's supposed to be so putting them on a strict solar schedule would, sometimes, appear not to work but it does, you just have to be patient about it. There is no need to separate them (I would never recommend splitting up a bonded pair, it's cruel) but reducing protein intake (no parrot should be free-fed protein, it's unnatural and completely unhealthy) and taking away the nest box will help with the process because both are secondary breeding triggers.

Their having sex does not mean the bird is going to lay an egg (birds are truly exceptional that way in that the hen can store the male's sperm for up to nine days and chooses whether to use it for fertilization or not -they also decide which sex the babies are going to be -amazing animals, aren't they?). So don't worry about that. Let them have their fun.

I also do not believe in preventing natural biorhythms. I think, as you do, that it's not only natural but also healthy for them so I not only do not prevent them from having a breeding season, I actually encourage my birds to chose a mate and go through all the motions of breeding so they court, nest, lay and incubate - but I don't allow babies to be born (I rescue parrots so I am against breeding them) so I switch the real eggs with fake ones the same morning they are laid (there is no embryo in them at that point in time) and, this way, everybody is happy because birds do not anticipate the birth of babies from eggs although they do mourn the babies that die or that are taken away from them (parrot breeders do this all the time and I think it's one of the cruelest of animal husbandry practices).

Therefore, if I were in your shoes, I would:
a) leave them together
b) remove the nest box
c) if they are not already in one, put them in a large flight cage (the change will distract them from breeding, too)
d) reduce protein
e) put them under a strict solar schedule

Let me know if you have any questions.

[Wolf]

I am not a breeder and I didn't like the thought of separating the birds either and if Pajarita says that this is not needed then I would go with that as I am pretty certain that she is right about it. I did, however pass on the information that I received from the breeder as to how they dealt with this.

[Pajarita]

And separating them is the easiest and a most effective way of dealing with the problem, Wolf. But breeders don't have the resources (time, dedication to individuals, space) we, owners, have so they opt for the easy way even if it's not the kindest.

[Wolf]

I hear you and understand and even agree with what you are saying, but if I am passing on information that I get from someone else, I try to pass it on in its entirety. Even if I don't like it, I think that it can avoid confusion further down the road. I can always say that I don't like it or that I don't agree with it. It is just part and parcel with me being honest in what I say and do.

[Pajarita]

Yes, I hear you. I also always try to pass other people's information as true as possible to the original statement.

[nataliezettler]

Just a couple of questions, breeders are wanting to put the birds breeding in between jan-may because it is biologically right for them......I get it.....actually when I had the three chicks, my male with the abused female now, was with the chronic layer and they had the chicks in april..., guess he was on the right timing when he was 1.5 yrs, but now he is off i guess because her hears the other pair mating too, when I got them the man(not a breeder) said they just had babies, which was two summers ago, ever since they breed same time, so I need to correct them too you think?.... but getting to my question, if they breed in warmer conditions, and you are saying to drop the temp around the right time to breed (jan,feb,april,may for canada is still freezing temps), wont that make them not want to breed and they will wait again for warmer weather......I have uv bulbs that run from 8:30-8:30 all day, and heat lamps in the winter because it gets extremely cold here but my husband and I don't like the heat so it stays fairly cold in home during winter.......just roughly guessing here but there aviary stays at around 60-70 in the winter, and 80 in our summers.....so maybe I'm just not understanding you, but if you are saying to cool it down in the winters, that's kinda what is happening anyway because of my environment.
But it makes sense to separate them till actually breeding season, cause yes I haven't had this female long and she was probably bred by the breeder around that time, he told me she bred every three months, so that was actually why I was concerned I because I thought in her condition I'm surprised he could breed her that much and not kill her, poor thing......getting to my food, yes I was feeding high protein because I saw them mating and thought I was supposed to, but I stopped that a month a go too....I've actually switched everything up a month a go hoping the male would leave her a lone for a bit so I could figure out her issue....I'm so glad that this is sounding to just be normal and its him with the issue....him I can fix, he is really easy going and adapts well, you should have seen how nicely he except the female, she on the other hand was so traumatized, she almost had a bi polar personality...fine one minute then attack him for no reason that I could see....poor girl she has come a long way and I really don't want anymore stress for her.....I thought them breeding was natural, but I guess even they get thrown off course a little....let me give you a basic of my set up, it must be hard answering my questions without seeing anything.....
It is a large, wall size (roughly 10.feet long) and right to the ceiling, separated, acrylic aviary with filtration, pull out trays etc..it only comes out a foot so its easier to clean and get the birds....the nests are placed when I think they have been mating for a few days....I have infrared heat lamps and uv lamps that are mounted on top and the uv has a timer, but the heat lamps I control depending on temp in the house....the food I give is premium budgie seed, dried chilly pepper, coconut shavings, parsley greens, 12 grain cereal, and eggshell.....I also give broccoli, fruits, and chicken bone marrow, and of course cuttlebone.....and everyday in mating time they got a chunk of cooked egg yolk...they of course get treats but only once and a while....all branches are birch, which I heard was parrot friendly and so far no probs....and water is changed twice a day and then if it is soiled..mural in back for natural appearance, and a few toys that are rotated every cage cleaning...anyway that's pretty much it for an in sight.....let me know what else you think and I can do it.....I'm gonna set up my waiting cage for the male he can handle change better, and leave the female where she feels save....let me know if I she remove the other male too, each pair has a travelling cage 18-24in so it's no problem to separate!.I will start that today!

[nataliezettler]

sorry wow I did get all the other replies right away and I'm just reading them now.....so let me know if you still think I should separate them.....the nests are out and have been for a month now, I switched everything a month a go, food, lights etc.....they are in a flight aviary check out my other message I gave you guys a bit more detail about the set up....I will try and get pics if I can show them on here...anyway I'm just glad my female may not have a problem.....as for the chronic layer, she and the first male where pet store birds, and they didn't know anything about anything....they wouldn't tell me where they were from of course because they want the profit....so I tried hard to learn fast, I did reading before buying but its really hard learning everything when I find on the net I get so many different ways...also in my city parrotlets don't come easy....I travelled to toronto to get the abused female, and thats four hours away....even my vet is two hours away because the vets in this city don't do birds....it sucks! so you see my concern because if I do have an emergency the vet is far to get to....you are right I wish I would have had more knowledge back then, but its hard without the resources at hand here, but I figured it out and saved the chick, I train dogs but I don't have the life style to support them, too much attention, which is why I didn't want a tamed bird because I don't have the energy for them.....I like watching birds, and providing natural environments for them....but yes any knowledge you can give me about anything, food, lighting, everything....more knowledge the better...

[nataliezettler]

I also want to add because I'm still getting the feeling like you are thinking I want to breed purposely....honestly I thought I was just letting them do what they do.....I change things in there cage when they start indicating they want it, I don't deliberately do it to cause breeding so please don't miss read me on that....I bred my pair once as a request from two cousins that own birds for over ten years and never had issues with there 3 Quakers, I only bred for them because they are not beginners......so please understand that I do understand the importance of the parrotlets, and my lack of knowledge isn't because I haven't tried.....I had one problem so far and this would have been the second......and I did say to you in my post that why should I stop the mating? if they are mating for fun then oh well....like I said I just never seen that where the female doesn't lay and thought I had a problem....so there is no nest box, lowered protein......so now everything should be good? she is okay then ? it's just her choosing not to lay then? if that's all then awesome....because honestly her behavior hasn't changed, she eats the same, plays, grooms....she is not tired...she takes her regular naps...thank you all for the reassurance and once again I'm sorry for lashing out...

[Pajarita]

Don't worry about 'lashing out' to me for a single second. For one thing, I have the thickest skin, for another, I am used to it (lots of people take offense with my bluntness at the beginning but, if they keep on reading, they realize it's not meanness but just my way of expressing myself as well as my love of birds) and, last but not least, when one tries hard and somebody is telling them it's not enough, it's a hard pill to swallow. Parrot keeping, been as difficult as it is to do semi-well, is one of those subject where you always end up getting your feelings hurt and brought down a peg or two (I always say that parrot keeping is one of the most humbling experiences there are). And you are 100% correct in that there is a lot of incorrect and misleading information out there! My favorite one is when people say bird husbandry is a matter of opinion as if it was a predilection of one color over another and not something that should be based on science. And, my dear, believe me when I tell you that we have all been there! I made some pretty stupid and real bad mistakes when I first started keeping parrots (wrong housing, wrong light, wrong schedule, wrong diet, wrong handling, etc etc etc) and had to learn the hard way.

Ok, so the problem here is the light, its schedule and the diet, basically. 8:30 am to 8:30 pm is 12 hours of bright and high UV light, this added to a diet high in protein and fat means breeding season all year round. You need to put full spectrum light with a bit of UVA and B output (CRI 94+ and Ktemp 5000-5500 and total UV no more than 5%) and turn it on when the sun is out and off when it's halfway down to setting (no lights before or after that).

You can lower the temperature in the birdroom to 60 -65 in the winter (Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb).

Please do not feed so much hard boiled egg all year round, it should be just the white of it (not the yolk, it has bad cholesterol in it and birds should never consume any because it's not part of their natural diet so nature did not give them a mechanism to get rid of it) and then only about 1/4 of it per bird once a week and only if they are breeding. No chicken marrow at all (fat and cholesterol galore! with the exception of a couple of species that are not kept as companions, parrots are all classified as herbivores and that means no animal protein). Give them cooked whole grains mixed with cooked veggies finely chopped for breakfast accompanied by a piece of fruit and a leafy green every day and a good quality budgie mix for dinner (no sprouts, nuts, nutriberries or any other high protein source during the resting season).

When people say that the breeding season starts in January, it doesn't mean that the birds will be breeding then, it means that their bodies start the process that will culminate in their producing chicks. The summer solstice is around Dec/21 and that's when the days start getting gradually longer. By mid January, the difference is already more than 20 minutes and we know (there are studies) that birds bodies react to this small difference (this is when the famous 'partial molt' of pet parrots usually occurs, too - another preparation for mating).

[Wolf]

Hey I know how all that is. Where I live there are no avian vets, the closest one is just under 2 hrs. from me. We can't start planting until the end of may because of the freezes. I also made a long trip to pick up a parrotlet that needed a home. That trip was about 12oo miles round trip. I live in the mountains in north western NC. So our situations are similar except for where we live.