cage newby

[debdans]

Forgat to add to top post above. I have stopped trying to get him from his cage. There iis no way with bare hands I will try. Like I said I got bit 4 times just getting a food bowl faster then a snake can bite. Well felt that fast. The cage is small so he did not have to get far to cross it. His new big play top cage will be here late next week. He is in a 2 by 2 and 3 high till his new cage gets here 36X24X66 with that much room maybe he will not be scared and fill like he must attack. He gets out a hour are so when I leave his door open to sit on top. Does not get off and attack me. Thank God . I Love this crazy bird all ready. Just to hear him chatter is a joy. But I want to take it slow to get him tame if possible. Like Wolf ? said you can wreak any chance of bonding if I push it.

[debdans]

Here are 2 pictures made today of my pretty Mr. Kiwi You can see the small amount of yellow on neck in one picture.

[Wolf]

I can't say for certain, the pictures that you posted made it look like there may be yellow on his forehead but this could just be a reflection of light. If he has yellow on his forehead he might be a Yellow Crowned Amazon. The difficulty in identification results from the fact that there are several sub species of this group of parrots, there is the nominate species and then 10 sub species divided into three families. The Yellow Naped Parrot may have a small patch of yellow on the nape of its neck or not, with the amount of yellow there increasing with the age of the parrot, however it is not uncommon for some Yellow Naped Parrots to not have any yellow on their napes.
The first think that you need to do is start learning about this birds body language. If it is spreading( fanning) it tail feathers and it eyes appear to be flashing, and you reach into the cage you will get bitten.
I hope that your new cage has little feed doors so that you can get to his food and water dishes without going into the cage, due to his being territorial.
due to the fact that I keep referring back to your posts when I reply, I just noted that you posted 2 more pictures of him and I did see yellow on his forehead. I am going to post this reply and look at the new pictures and read what you said and then I will come back to you here.

[Wolf]

Pajarita has more experience than I do as I am still a relative newcomer to the parrot scene, with only about three years of experience and research to my resume'. There are three species of parrots in the Yellow Naped family of parrots and although I could be wrong, I am thinking that he is of the parvipes sub species, not that I have any clue as to exactly what that means other than it also tends to have some yellow on its crown as well as on the nape.
In my previous reply this morning I was headed in the direction of suggesting that with towel in hand, that you open his cage and step back and let him come out that way if he would, but you have already figured that out. Good for you!
I am able to go in my Amazons cage without getting bit, but as a general rule I don't, instead I open her door and let her choose when and how to come out of her cage. Everyone needs to have a safe place that is theirs and theirs alone, a place where, even if in no other place they have the right to say no. As in I don't want to play right now, or I don't feel like being touched now, or just no, let me be in peace for a while. It helps their self confidence and shows them that you respect both them and their space, and although I have no scientific documentation to back me up, I feel that for a creature that is as intelligent as these parrots are that they need to have this control over their lives at the very least.
Is your Mr. Kiwi clipped or is he able to fly? When you let him out to sit on his cage hoe did he return to it? Did you have to put him in or did he go in on his own? Have you asked him to step up from on his cage? If so , how did that go?

[liz]

Go back to the first set of pictures you posted. In the second picture you have your hand in the same place that a preditor would attack. Look at the fear in his eyes.
He is not mean. He is scared.
Don't put your hand in his cage until he is out and you won't get bit. While he is on top of his cage is when you should be working on communication. He feels more secure up there. Just have a long conversation with him.
If you like puzzles, put one together while he is watching. It will give him time to look at you without you asking him for something.
Mine are vegiholics. Carrot and celery are favorites that they can pick up. Before you open his cage door, get two carrots with one for him and one for you. Put his on top of the cage and don't start eating yours until he finds his. It may not work the first time but they are social eaters and your his only flock.

[Pajarita]

He is a Yellow Nape, not a Yellow Crown (their beak is all black or, in the case of the Panama, horn colored), the subspecies itself is really not that relevant because the behaviors are all the same. The yellow spot in the nape will get larger as he gets older regardless of whether it's a male or a female.

Don't clean his cage with him in it (it will not endear you to him). Put a perch on the outside of his cage if he doesn't have one of those little trap doors that open into a 'balcony' where he can stand and branches sticking up so he can climb them (you can tie them to the bars on the side with an untreated sisal rope -it will serve to hold the branch in place and, if you make a few knots one on top of the other to end up with a big thing and leave the ends loose, it will be a 'chewie' toy for him) and, once he is up there entertained with something (like a nut or a pinecone he can destroy or something like that), then and only then do the cleaning, food and water. I can handle two of my amazons without a problem, a third with caution and the other three are pretty much 100% hands-off (but I am working on one of them, the youngest male). Establish a routine where you say a phrase that means you are going to be going into 'his' space but not to touch him, just to put food and water there (I say "Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me" - I also lower my face and look at them from the top of my eyes -kind of like a shy little girl would look at somebody). At the beginning, do it when he is far away or so entertained that he would not be able to reach you fast enough for you not to be able to take your hand out but, as time goes by and you see he starts to relax as he starts putting 2 and 2 together and realizes what the phrase means, you can start doing it when he is closer BUT watch his body language closely and, if you see him looking at you intently with his chest lowered the merest bit, his tail fanning and/or his eyes pinning take your hand out immediately, turn your back on him and wait a few minutes until he again becomes distracted and then and only then try it again. One of the three zons I cannot handle is a wild caught which was used as a breeder all his life, another is also a wild-caught whose previous owner tried to 'dominate' (he sent her to the emergency room three times in two years) and the third (the one that I am working on) used to be a pet, was rehomed and his new owner would punch him when he bit him and all three allow me to put food and water right in front of his beak without reacting when he hears this phrase (they even move back to the middle of the platform when they are at the very edge so I can put the plate down on it). Parrots are highly intelligent animals and master readers of body language and tone of voice so, if you are consistent with the phrase, do it very gradually and in a calm manner, he will learn that this means good things for him (food! -zons are highly motivated by it) without you trying to trick him into anything. And that is 'the' trick! Do NOT try to trick him and do anything else but what the phrase is supposed to mean, namely, clean water and food.

[liz]

Use simple words such as food, water, out and etc. I also taught mine help. When they dropped something I told them I would help by picking it up.

Myrtle was my biggest conquest and I loved every minute of it. Watching her grow into the beautiful loving thing she is now was so rewarding but it did take almost 4 years.

Tommy, Tammy and Shadow have been with me a long time. The rest of them are newbys. I am going through the same thing with them. The difference is that I have tame birds with them teaching them what to eat and show them that they are not afraid.

[debdans]

Wow all your help is so super. All day no bites.
LIZ the first 2 pictures were not with me. Pictures before I got him. I was amazed how tame he was for other owner. I guess not so much ha ha. That man saw me coming Kiwi is not so tame as was beat into submission.
Also you were so right he LOVES carrots though not enough to eat it with me near cage. I backed off a few feet and he tore it up.
Went to grocery today and got corn on the cob chunks. Read that in a book. And Celery. surprising to me he liked celery the best. I hade to back up but not far and he took a stalk to top perch and made strange noises while he ate it.
Wolf he does have food doors on cage but he flip.s food bowls out the minute I step back. So know I just place them on bottom were he at least does not turn them out side down.He never throws water bowl out of holder just food bowl.
I wish I could get picture when I am close he takes his foot and pushes food bowl back and forth making the same strange growl and low words with the word No or What screamed sometimes.. Reading to let him get on top to get to his food bowl was a huge help as if I even get close to his bowl even to add food I get attacked. No bites all day what a huge plus.Thank You all so much.

[debdans]

One last question? Amazon.com reply's on this toy are that birds love it. But replys were from African Greys owners it this something Amazons would use.

[Wolf]

You never really know how a bird is going to react to these foraging type toys or any other toy for that matter. The biggest thing to remember with them is if they have never seen such a thing, they may be terrified of the plastic beastie, at least at first. This simply means that you would need to place it at a nonthreatening distance from them, but also in plain view of them. Then you periodically pick it up and play with it yourself, but you must not approach any closer than they are comfortable with while you play with it. This playing with it will incite their interest and also teach them how to use it.
As for foraging toys you recently went to the store and purchased perhaps one of the best components to producing safe foraging toys for your bird, but you probably put it in the trash. The husks of the cob corn can be used to wrap up different types of treats for them and hung on the bars of the cage or down through the top as well as putting several in a small cardboard box or paper bag and hanging that or just putting it on the bottom of the cage for them. Make ten packs out of the husks putting a treat in half of them and stuff the remainder with crumpled paper and tie them shut and give all of them to him and let him find the treats. After doing that a couple of times put the treat in just two or three of them. This is much cheaper than store bought foraging toys and he will love them once you show him how to rip them open for the treat inside.
Try to get a couple of pictures of the feeding doors of your cage. I need to see how the dish sets in and whether it has a means to retain the dis in place. I might be able to tell you how to prevent him from removing the dish or I might not it depends on the setup that you have.