New With a House Full...

[Kidjohn]

I can't be on here for too long today, but I wanted to say one thing about trust...
I know feel of the bite, and surely don't like it... But I watch the quiet and personal times between these birds, and their reactions together, not knowing what anything means...
Once training and I am at a place of newness, and they are on my hand but becoming slightly stressed, I move my free hand to their beak regardless of their actions, I remain, and may take the next step... Gentle as I can and I touch the beak and wiggle it so lightly... More of an indication of the action on the first time, and then I do it more and more, and it is part of our interaction...
I have not gotten bitten for doing this...

[Wolf]

Parrots, like us speak in different dialects and in different languages too, this is true in their vocalizations and also in their body languages. But generally speaking if their eyes are pinned or sort of flashing and their body feathers are held tight against the body, you are in danger of a bite. There are also other indicators and some of them are species specific. For most of them if there is enough time to do so they will try to warn us when they are getting ready to bite, it seems that like us they would prefer to not have to resort to biting to communicate with us. But we have to learn to look for and see subtle changes in their eyes, body position and feather positions and then we have to learn to quit ignoring they attempts at communication.
Another one that seems to be general is that when they don't want to talk to us is that they will turn their backs to us. I think that learning these and other body language components are extremely useful when attempting to gain their trust and I am only basing this on my experiences with the birds that I have.

[Pajarita]

Instead of gently 'wiggling' their beak, try caressing the top first and then the sides of it with your index and thumb (as if you were gently pinching it while slowly moving your fingers from the base of the beak to the tip). Parent birds will gently touch the babies beaks this way, they open their beaks and 'grab' the baby's beak between the upper and lower beak only it's not really 'grabbing', it's more like the way we would hold something in the palm of our hand, not really closing our hand around it so it's more like a touch than a grab. They do this to get what we call the 'feeding response' (head thrown back and bobbing up and down). Adult birds remember this touch and will often respond by making a head bob when we do it (the way that babies ask their parents for food). They like it very much - the same way that a baby likes to be held in an adult's arms in exactly the same position they use for breast feeding and the same way we like to be held in somebody's arms - it's a way of showing love they can understand.

[Kidjohn]

This is wonderful, and a coming together of the same thing through different eyes...
I have not experience this depth of descriptions, not sure that my vocabulary would allow it, but to watch it all unfold has been totally wonderful...

I will try to use to caress the top and then the sides from base to the tip of the beat... my goal in doing this has been to bring me closer to the bird in a bond, and as a test to see the level of trust they have with me...

These two posts above here are loaded with thought-provoking and Good Information...
Thanks, Wolf & Pajarita...

[Pajarita]

Mind you, only do the sides after you've been doing the top (one finger -I use my index- slowly caressing the top beak from the nares -nostrils- to the tip) and the bird has learned to like it. They can't bite you if you touch only the top because, like us, they need to move the lower jaw to open their beak so, when you are touching the top, unless the bird throws his head back, he can't really reach your finger. I have been working on an abused male amazon (his owner used to punch him) doing this (had him for a couple of years now but I only talk to them until they approach me) and he has already learned what it means and stretches (and lowers -he is always perching high up) his body so I can reach his beak. My next step is to touch his lore, cheeks and, later and if at all possible, the top of his head.

[Kidjohn]

The top of the head seems to be a tough area to scratch... I have been working with these two Suns and it will take more time...
The female is going to be the easiest, but the male will ultimately a greater challenge, and I will feel like he will be my greatest accomplishment...

I have just found that the abused White Eye Conure will be homed with me in about a week...
He is an adult bird that is very timid and a long term project... The deal is if I can gentle and calm the bird, and bond with him, he is mine... No time frame has been set, so as you must know, I am jazzed...
And, I will be asking for advice... course, I think you know that much...

Damaged animals of any kind have a place in my heart...

I'll bet you are enjoying working with your Amazon... A bird that has been punched repeatedly has to be very short on trust...
If you can gain his trust, You should have a very solid and bonded bird once you are finished...
I don't think you are ever truly finished working with a damaged bird... There is always that small piece of memory that keeps showing up, and you know your work is never quite done...

Untouched birds have no preconceived Ideas, and they are easier to work with, and gain ground...
But, all bird work seems to be slower to evolve than the time and effort put in on other animals...

[liz]

NO untouched birds also have fear of hands.
A bird that has been abused must be respected before you ask anything of it. When it feels your respect it will start making contact.

[Wolf]

Mostly there is nothing that difficult, if you have the patience and can handle losing a little flesh. Mostly it is a matter of letting the bird choose when it is ready for more interaction.

[Kidjohn]

"Mostly there is nothing that difficult",
This is Good News...
I've had a bad habit of being too available in giving blood... But while learning of their mannerisms and thresholds, I feel less vulnerable...
It is good to hear that the core of most Bird Handling endeavors can be boiled down to persistence and patience...

They seem to be fairly tolerant of me being constantly available ...
This is a very nice way to spend my time...

KJ

[Wolf]

Kidjohn, this will perhaps go against anything that you may have learned or heard about working with animals, especially when that animal has suffered abuse. Patience and persistence are great tools as is consistency and when applied correctly and in a loving manner will solve 98% of all of your training difficulties. But there are two other tolls that you need to learn about and learn to use these are control and surrender. Now , maybe I should have said three , instead of two because control can be divided into control and self control, but to me they are one and the same.
In order to control any situation that one will ever encounter one must always exercise self control because without self control you can not surrender control to the animal that needs your help. And if you do not relinquish control you will be unable to hear and see what the animal is trying to say to you. If you do not listen to the animal then regardless of how you use ,consistency, patience and persistence you will never achieve your goal fully , because you will be instilling obedience through fear and anxiety.
By exercising control over yourself and relinquishing control of the animal to itself, you allow the animal to freely speak what is in its heart and mind, I call this surrender. When you learn to do this, the animal will tell you what is wrong, and if you listen through this and continue to listen they will tell you what it require to overcome its problems and a good bit of what happened to it as well. These are always the first steps that you must take and the animal will still need to retain a certain amount of its own control in order to continue the dialog that tells you how to best reach through and help it.
Perhaps others have other ways of describing and even different names for these steps, but these are among my most frequently used and most powerful tools in helping the animal. It changes thing to the extent that it dispels anxiety and fear and the animal then does what you ask because it want to, it wants to please you. It assists the healing processes that the animal must undergo.
These are my own thoughts, think about them.