New With a House Full...

[Pajarita]

I say that the bird should be the one to set the pace but, basically, it is EXACTLY what you are saying: surrender control of the situation to the bird.

As to the amazon, his name is Zeus (the punching owner had changed it to Oscar -a clear sign of somebody who does not think of birds as sentient individuals but as objects of entertainment- but I have called him by his rightful name since I got him as it's the only respectful thing to do) and I don't really expect or want a close relationship with him. He has a mate and a little flock and living with them with the minimum interference from me is what is best for him. Having a relationship with humans does not really benefit birds, it only benefits us. If he wants a closer relationship from me, he will get it but I seriously doubt he will. Why would he? What can I possibly give him that he is not getting from his mate and flock mates 1000 times better?

[Wolf]

I think that the hardest part of it for most people to understand is that by surrendering control to the bird and listening to what the bird is saying, it ends the initial conflict, the bird realizes this and will give you the control right back because it wants you to be pleased with it, it just needs to feel that you will not abuse it and will allow it some control over its own life. it sees that you will try to listen and everything proceeds many time faster and easier than by not giving up control. It sounds contradictory but it really isn't.

[Kidjohn]

Wolf,

“These are my own thoughts, think about them.”

“Patience and persistence are great tools as is consistency...”

“If you do not listen to the animal then regardless of how you use, consistency, patience and persistence you will never achieve your goal fully , because you will be instilling obedience through fear and anxiety.”

What is done can be equally as important as what is not done...
You have shown the true path...

I have watched horses with all descriptions of fear, and pressure can be applied with the slightest degree of body language, and if a way out is provided, you can feel that horse's mind work, and you will see what you have achieved...
Horses are different than birds... But fear is equal and universal... and dissolving fear is the start of all positive things...

As time goes by, pressure can be a tool to use, and if the path of release is opened and clearly marked it will be taken... Still restraint must be used at all times...

I've been told that a young and very fearful Cockatiel will also be coming with the Bare Eyed Conure...
Soooo... If the snow holds off and the pass remains clear, I'll be busy for awhile...

I like the way that things are turning...

Thanks,
KJ

[Wolf]

For birds pressure is not a viable tool and the bodily pressure used to guide a horse is not the same because with the horse it is a means of communication between horse and rider. It is interesting that you chose horses for your example as I was a professional horse trainer for many years.

[Kidjohn]

I use what I know... My father trained horses, and bred Quarter Running Horses for years...

[liz]

KJ, are you not afraid that you are getting too many rescues too fast.
I have 6 newby cockatiels but I don't tame them. The flock tames them and I spread them out time wise to give the flock a chance to work with them. All I have to give them is love and respect and they come around to trusting me.
So many special need babies are going to need 25/8 of your time.

[Wolf]

I trained cutting horses, Appaloosa show horses, trail horses and then Thoroughbreds both as race horses and as hunter/ jumpers as well as dressage All in all I trained horses for about 25 years. This doesn't address the many abused dogs that I rehabilitated or the thoroughbred racing stable that I managed. You do use that which you know, but you must always be looking for better ways and honing your skills. Pressure does not work well with birds. Although training dogs and horses is similar in many ways it is because they are mammals, birds are not. Birds brains are wired in a completely different manner and this is coupled with a far greater intellect. When you use pressure tactics to train a bird you end up with a resentful and angry bird who soon becomes unmanageable because of its biting. You teach a bird through respect, and trust. you don't demand anything from a bird, you ask the bird and you show the bird what you want and this is where both patience and persistence begin to pay off.
I can only tell you what I have learned in the hopes that it will help both you and the bird, but mostly the bird. The bird will not do things for just anybody it will only do these things for the person or persons that it develops a relationship with.

[Kidjohn]

Liz...
Too many rescues??? LOL
I'm not afraid of anything... My head is spinning and I have no idea if I am coming or going...
I pass A cage and open the door and play with a bird. then I move onto the next cage and do the same thing, trying to remember at what level this particular bird is at. and then I reach my goal and go to the bathroom... Once finished in the bathroom I start on a new direction and toward the barn to feed the horses, but before going outside I have to turn on the lights for my Nanday, and change his water... You say too many Birds??? I don't have time enough to stop and count them... lol
You might have a point, but I need to take time to think about it...

Liz, all of this was made to sounds lighthearted and with a firm air of a Joke...
It is not a joking matter, and I am sorry...
I am working hard to make everything right for all the birds... The birds that can have free flight in the house, do... Those that can't be let fly free have large cages with many toys... The first breeder pair pretty much take care of each other...
They all will get to spend time outside once the weather warms...
The new birds that are coming will fit in and they will receive all that I can give...
I might be overworked, but work has killed very few people...

Thank you for your comments,
KJ

[Kidjohn]

Wolf,
You have a good point here, and it is something that I need to keep in mind...
Although training dogs and horses is similar in many ways it is because they are mammals, birds are not. Birds brains are wired in a completely different manner and this is coupled with a far greater intellect.

Training horses gives great satisfaction and the successful trainers seem to do well with all animals...

KJ

[Pajarita]

Liz...
Too many rescues??? LOL
I'm not afraid of anything... My head is spinning and I have no idea if I am coming or going...
I pass A cage and open the door and play with a bird. then I move onto the next cage and do the same thing, trying to remember at what level this particular bird is at. and then I reach my goal and go to the bathroom... Once finished in the bathroom I start on a new direction and toward the barn to feed the horses, but before going outside I have to turn on the lights for my Nanday, and change his water... You say too many Birds??? I don't have time enough to stop and count them... lol
You might have a point, but I need to take time to think about it...

Hmmm, I would not laugh about this, if I were you. Liz's comment was exactly what I was thinking as I was reading your new post and the numbers you are acquiring in just a few months is extremely worrisome. I don't think you realize that when parrots live in a cage on their own (without a mate or a flock) they each require 4 hours of out of cage time and 1 to 2 hours EACH of one-on-one interaction. They are not like dogs or horses that are satisfied with a pat in passing and just seeing you in the same room as they are. And each new bird takes months and, sometimes, even years get the flock dynamics stabilized BEFORE you can bring a new one into the home.