Hello everyone!

[Fidget]

Hi! Nice to make everyone's acquaintance. I'm Krista and I currently care for 3 Green Cheeked Conures , 1 Eastern Rosella , and 1 Quaker . The GCCs and the Quaker are all "2nd hand" birds, that are around 2 years old. The rosella is about 8 months old. Growing up I owned finches, a cockatiel and a pair of Bourke's parakeets. I just got back into keeping birds, since I left my job at an arthropod zoo and started working in tick research. I greatly missed the aspects of animal husbandry. I'm hoping this board and its knowledgeable members can help make my little feather friends' lives better!

A little bit about my birds: I recently (1 month) adopted 2 unsexed gccs from a man that said they were siblings (there was a 3rd one, but I was just looking for 2... more to come on that...) He said he'd raised them from babies and they were hand tame at one point in time, but he hadn't messed with them in "quite a while". One sibling (Cooper) was relatively nice, the other (Jinx) was terrified and bitey. I was okay with bitey, I don't need a bird to pet or do tricks, as I have domesticated fur beasts for that.

Cooper came around, steps up, takes treats from my hands, plays with toys, preens me, stuff like that. Jinx just remained in the cage uninterested in anything. She seemed "sad". I started wondering if I broke up a bonded pair, by leaving the 3rd sibling with the man. I contacted him and adopted the unsexed 3rd sibling (Fidget). Sure enough they were over the moon to be back together and do EVERYTHING together. All 3 siblings live in the same cage together (31.5 in x 20.5 in x 53), as they did with the man; so far no issues.

Quinn, the Eastern Rosella was purchased from a local bird store about 2 months ago. She whistles and chirps a lot. Plays with balls a little and loves to chew wood. Shes steps up when she's out of the cage, but doesn't enjoy touching or anything like that. She sits near me and we whistle at each other. I'm ok with that.

The Quaker, Yoshi, was not going to originally become a part of my family. I met a person rehoming her (confirmed female) and decided to meet her. She was sweet enough, for a bird just meeting a stranger, but I felt TERRIBLE about the conditions she was kept in. She was living in a travel type cage I wouldn't keep anything in, ever. I don't know when the last time it was cleaned out was. Also, he'd only been feeding her shelled peanuts and wheat bread. That was no life for a bird; so she lives with me. She's been here a week.

When I first got the Rosella I started researching the best food options and things of that nature; after all, animal husbandry is more complicated than it seems. I found this forum and immediately switched all of my birds to "gloop" and one leafy green, one fresh veg and one fruit in the a.m. (730ish) and leave it all day and a seed mix at night (around 5pm). The seeds are removed after the birds are asleep. They've all transitioned to it well, I'm very pleased! They are not covered at night, as they sleep in the living room/dinning room. All of my nightime stuff is done in my bedroom with the door shut so the light/noise doesn't bother them. They have full spectrum light that comes on at 9am and goes off at 3pm.

My birds are not flighted, as they all came to me with clipped wings. I've seen a couple flight feathers coming in on the rosella, and I plan to allow this to happen, as I understand it's essential for their psychological and physiological well being.

So.... I have a couple of questions for you all, if you don't mind.

1) Since the adoption of Fidget, Jinx now comes out of her cage, but is still terrified of me and tries to bite. I don't try to touch her and let them go in and out as they want. Fidget, though he'll take seeds from my hands, tries to bite. He's gotten especially cage aggressive. I only have my hands in the cage to retrieve the food/water dishes to clean them and to retrieve foot toys they poop on. I realize bonded pairs don't need me, and they're just protecting their space... but, i need to be able to clean the cage without them ripping my flesh off. Suggestions?

2) Is it okay if I don't try to hand tame the bonded pair? They seem content just doing their thing... I'm okay with not holding them; I've raised tarantulas for 20 years and I can tell you, they're not cuddly creatures, but I love them just the same.

3) The lady at the bird store said she'd never allowed the rosella to fly while she was hand feeding etc. Her wings have always been clipped. She's starting to get flight feathers in now and I want her to be able to fly. Is there anything I need to do? Will she know how to fly on her own??

Sorry for the novel! I appreciate all the help I've already gotten without you all even knowing it.

-Krista

[Wolf]

Welcome to the forum I hope that you will like it here and that we can help you and your birds.
I really hate to do this to you right of the bat, but I believe that it is warranted and hope that I am wrong. Please separate your Rosella from your other birds and keep it quarantined until you have it tested for beak and feather disease. Please read this article : http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/cr ... 30.html#cr My concern is that in the early 1900s a shipment of eastern and crimson rosellas were refused entry into New Zeland and were release off a place called Otago Heads by the ship that brought them. They mated and produced offspring until there are no pure crimson rosellas left. The strain of beak and feather disease is especially deadly to other species of parrots. If the rosella tests positive then your other birds will also need to be tested for this as well.
Now that I have cried wolf like a good boy( I don't feel like one, as my heart is breaking over this) if the test comes back negative, twice ,I believe, then it is in the birds best interests to fly if possible. At 8 months of age even if clipped before it fledged you may be able to teach it to fly.
Yes it is ok to not try to hand tame the bonded pair, but I also see no reason not to try , at least enough that you can get them to come out of the cage for cleaning and to go back as needed. If you work primarily with the third one they may pick up on it enough through watching you with him.

[Fidget]

No need to worry about telling me things I should do! She's in the dining room, where as the others are in my living room; I can move her to a completely closed off area. Fortunately, there is veterinary teaching hopsital near by with an avian vet. I'll get her (and the rest) checked out immediately.

Thanks for your other replies! I'll read around and find the best way to start working with Jinx and Fidget. I think it'll be easier with Fidget, as I've at least found that he likes a couple different "treats", the other... She'd prefer to scramble away or bite.

[Pajarita]

Hello, Fidget and the bird gang, welcome to the forum. I have to tell you that I like you (a lot!) already! You don't only obviously have a real soft spot for animals, you seem to be the kind of person who puts their needs and desires before your own so triple kudos to you for that!

Although I do agree with Wolf that birds need to be quarantined and that it's always better to test for disease, I would not worry overmuch about the Rosella having PBFD. And the reason for this is her age (she is a juvenile). PBFD presents itself in three different forms:
1. Peracute - it affects hatchlings, has no symptoms and death occurs within days.
2. Acute - it affects hatchlings, it has symptoms and death occurs within a few weeks.
3. Chronic - this is the form that birds have when acquired as adults and the one that is dangerous to other birds, it shows gradual and progressive symptoms and which, although it is eventually fatal, death is usually caused by secondary opportunistic infections due to the severely depressed immune system.

Now, unless your bird caught the disease VERY recently in the petstore, it could not have 'brought' it from the breeder because, if it had, it would be dead by now.

As to the other question, the taming or no taming is up to you. I think that even if you don't do anything, they will become tamer as time goes by. You've acquired them VERY recently and they usually need quite a number of months to get used to their new humans and, as time goes by and they see there is no threat from you, they will stop.

For cleaning the cage without getting attacked, do it when they come out of their cages. I know they can't fly yet but, if you put branches going up from the side of the cage, they will climb up (especially if you put a couple of pieces of fruit skewered in the small branches up there) and you will be able to clean without getting your hands bit in the process.

[Wolf]

Not so!! The crimson Rosella is a carrier of this disease and is unaffected by it. I posted the link in this thread and this one as well http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/cr ... 30.html#cr This was the original link I found on this and is more detailed than the one I posted this morning. Apparently this is a genetically carried strain of the disease and is carried in the feathers of the Rosella or at least linked to the feathers through color. At least that was how I read it.

[Fidget]

Thanks for the reply and welcome Pajarita!
Thanks Wolf for the links. I'll definitely take your advice into consideration, and I've already moved her into a room I can close. I'm also going to search the literature for it, but I know it could be difficult to find info, I'll try though!

They all have appointments for Monday at the veterinary teaching hospital; their vet specializes in exotics and birds and is the guy they call for the zoos around here. I think I might go ahead and have them sexed so I can know if I should watch for signs of egg binding and all that fun stuff females bring with them.

I know I should have quarantined them all. ::shameful::, I've seen the effects of improper quarantine with fish and arthropods. It's no fun. But they all joined around the same time so keeping them in different parts of the house was a little difficult, I only have a few seperate rooms! They don't go near each other, they don't share dishes, nor do they currently play on the same play stands/etc. I know dander and airborne nasal discharge can be issues, though. Hopefully they'll all get a clean bill of health and I'll do my best to keep them as far away as possible until their month (?) is up.

I like the branch idea! They'd love that. I have a huge sycamore tree in my yard which drops limbs periodically and I believe I saw on the safe wood/plant list that sycamore is ok. I also have access to an autoclave and a large oven.

Another question:
I've tried searching the forum (and other sites) for clues to what the noises my Quaker makes mean. I've found videos of them chatting and stuff, but she doesn't speak that I know of. It's a new type of bird to me and her noises seem to be different than the rest. (I've already found a resource for the gcc noises and for the Rosella amazingly...)

Thanks!

[Fidget]

So I just read the paper published in PNAS that that linked article is referring to. And I have to say, science communication is severely lacking and I always become infuriated when research is misconstrued or diluted down to the point the actual results are lost. I have a passion for science communication. /end soap box

So the paper, actually discusses the viral load and susceptibility of a complex of P. elegans and the subspecies. What they found was the Crimson and Yelllow rosellas have a much higher viral load than the hybrids/intermediate forms. So, this in turn brought them to two conclusions, either the subspecies/hybrids are less susceptible/hardier than their parents spp and have a better immune response or the hybrids/other subspp are more susceptible and succumb quickly from it, hence the lower burden on the hybrids. Too high of a viral load for that animal but lower than parent spp loads kills the animal.

The linked article that says something about the disease they "carry around in their feathers", well it just means they transmit the disease the usual transmission route. And the fact that so many of the nonhybrid rosellas have high viral loads, they pose a threat to other birds on the island as they shed the virus. The paper does not state if the birds succumb to the virus but it also doesn't state that they're asympotmatic carriers either!

The paper was also about the role that PBFD plays in selection pressure for speciation.

So my understanding is they carry high viral counts, and they put other birds at risk for coming into contact with the virus while they still are alive. Since no mention of death or being asymptomatic carriers, the linked article is presumptuous.

**Edit**

Another paper I read in the archives of virology states that some of the parrots in Australia have been dealing with PBFD for much longer than other spp as shown by the variation/mutations found with the viruses population of that species. Eastern rosellas are one in which the virus has been around a long time.

My understanding from the litearture leads me to believe that they still succumb to the disease if their bodies cannot combat the virus, though. But, several subspp seem to be able to amount an immune response and become immune to it (those are not the ones that pose a risk to bird populations, it's the ill ones with high viral loads that require attention/research in wildlife management).

This is by no means me arguing against testing for communicable diseases in my birds; just a reiteration of what I've read from a couple of journal articles.

[Wolf]

Not a problem for me, I know that there are many things that I don't understand or only understand partially, that doesn't even start to address that which I simply have no Idea about. I love discussion and the second link in this thread is from a link that I had posted a while back in the general topics category under wanting a conversation. If you look you will find me posting in various places interesting articles that I find trying to get a conversation going that we can all profit from. You really need differing sets of views for the conversation to get very interesting and in my opinion to get the most out of it. Pajarita is similar in this respect, in that she loves to learn about birds and she likes debate.
Thank you for your take on the articles and I will read it over a couple of times before I respond to that, but just wanted to say that we all want the same thing and that is a wonderful life for your birds and yourself.

[Fidget]

I love discussion and the second link in this thread is from a link that I had posted a while back in the general topics category...

I do believe both links (in this thread) are the same! So that may be some of what might seem like miscommunication/me not understanding. I'll see if I can find the link in the General topics category.

I'm always open for logical discussion. I enjoy it. And yes, we're all about the same thing happy healthy lives for the birds.

Cheers.

[Fidget]

I found the thread. I read the link you posted about PBFD and the one Pajarita posted (which is more in line with the paper). But I still believe the "carried in the feathers"/color associated thing is a bit misleading. Imo, it refers to the selection presure of the virus for hybridization which in turn leads to more brightly colored birds (hybrids). It's not actually the virus CAUSING the coloration. Semantics, maybe....

I'll definitely be on the lookout for your article links. I'm all about reading/learning heck, I read scientific journals for fun (and work, lol).