Hello and Request for Help :)

[mikella]

(Please see my last post on previous page)

To add to that - he very likely will not stay on the table stand. If he's in one spot long enough (couple minutes), he flutters to the floor and will walk over to us and crawl all the way up to our shoulder (most times we would put our hand down and he would hop up, but sometimes we would let him climb up with praise).

Still the best option though? And when he flutters off, put him back on with the dowel? I think I'd be doing that all day. He is soooo desperate for physical contact from us.

He's in his cage right now, but I brought all my stuff in here to sit by him. Is that the way to go for now? He's still begging to get out though. Today is the least 'content' I've seen him (not that he's been content, but I could certainly tell that he was STARTING to get a little feel for things).

[Pajarita]

Use a T stick (the top of the T is for him to perch on and the vertical stick is for you to hold on to). If he jumps down, use the T stick and put him back on the table perch (yes, your husband can make one, lots of instructions on how to if you google it but it's basically a branch or a piece of wood secured perpendicularly to a base with a branch screwed onto it making it like a T). Try your best to keep him on the stand and always keep a small stuff toy handy so, if you see he is going to bite, put the toy in front of his beak for him to grab instead of your flesh. If you can't keep him off you, wear long sleeves, gloves (they usually hate them though) and a towel draped around your neck so he can't reach it. Don't move too suddenly, don't have a TV or a radio blasting, keep away from open windows where things might be flying by or cars passing, etc -the idea is to keep the stimulus to a minimum so there is nothing for him to worry about.
GCCs ALWAYS want to be on you - even the ones that bite.

[mikella]

Pajarita, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to give me all this advice........ I really, sincerely appreciate it.

I am super stressed right now and just trying to wrap my head around things and do the best I can. I want this little guy to be happy and healthy. And now I am realizing some things: I mistook his "sweetness" for affection and thought it meant that he was warming up to me, when in actuality he was probably just desperate for any closeness and scared from all the change... and just because he lets me scratch his neck doesn't even mean that he wanted me to... it's like a treat, just because he takes it from me doesn't have much to do with me, just the fact that he wanted a treat and was tempted by it. It means that he's not terrified of me, but doesn't mean that he trusts me. I feel so guilty. I had the absolute best intentions. I literally have been worried sick over this little guy and trying to make everything perfect and calm and comfortable for him and be with him... but I just flat-out didn't understand these things until I came here.

I will have my husband make those perches this evening.

Some questions:

1. I'm assuming that his pellets are a no-no, correct? I will pick up a bag of seed either tomorrow or Monday. Someone mentioned budgie seed mix, and someone mentioned cockatiel seed mix, and now I can't find where I read this... Is it ok to mix some pellets in for a while to his supper?

2. Would you mind suggesting a specific schedule to stick to?
Like, uncover at _____ (6:30?), breakfast at _____, out of cage at _____, in cage at _____... etc.

3. No touching for how many weeks to start with? And is there a way I will know when it is ok?

4. Would you direct me to some pics of "ideal" cage set-ups for a Cinnamon Green Cheek? (as in, inside the cage, what is used for perches, placement, etc.)

(I'm sorry I'm asking question after question...)

Thanks again <3

[Wolf]

It really sounds like he is accustomed to being out of his cage for long periods of time, He wants and needs the security of his human in this new place and so he keeps going to you but you are not his person and that probably confuses him even more since he is already scared and confused. There are so many things happening right now in his life that scares him and he can't help that he is confused. He was probably a very good, and sweet bird to his last owner but he had been there for a long time. Yes you made a few mistakes but GCC's can be very forgiving and as soon as he realizes that he is in no danger either from his new environment and you he will start relaxing and not be so aggressive.
I don't think that there is any ideal setup for any bird. you do need a couple of perches up high in the cage. they should be as high as possible but not high enough to not allow him to stand up straight if he chooses to and you don't want any perch that is higher than his food and water in a position that allows him to poop in them. Nice wooden branches with the bark still on them and given his size probably about an inch and a quarter in diameter would be about right. You need to make certain that these perches are of a bird safe wood and that they have not been sprayed with insecticide or fungicide. Here is a link to some safe and toxic items ranging from foods to wood on into household products. The list begins on the second page of the topic.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12521
As for a seed mix for a GCC, either a budgie mix or a cockatiel mix would work out fine for him and you might consider getting both of them and alternating between them to give him some variety.
Since this was directed to Pajarita and since she knows much more than I do about these birds, I will butt out now. I just thought that I would try to offer a little bit of help until she sees this and gets to answer.

[mikella]

Thanks for the response Wolf...

Just a quick reply for now. It's quite the opposite, actually - he was handled very little for the last 1.5 years and getting next to no out-of-cage time which was half of the reason she wanted to find him a new home. But I think he was likely very attached to his old owner. She said he was too.

He is TERRIFIED of the dark. Tonight was heartbreaking. I'm wondering if all these changes at once are too much and perhaps I should leave lights on at night for a couple weeks as he settles a little? Once it IS dark, he is ok. But it's that 'getting dark' period. He is flat-out terrified. It became very clear as the day went on today just how scared he is of all of this. He is such a sweet guy and I hurt for him...

My husband made the T-perch. He came on it to come out of the cage (husband braved it for tonight bc I was so nervous from earlier)... He was DYING for contact poor guy. I felt like he needed it. It went ok. Was only out for 20 minutes or so on his shoulder. Was afraid of the T-perch so couldn't get him back in on that - he fluttered to the floor so I laid down and he waddled over and stepped up on my hand and I put him back in the cage that way. Then he was sooo so afraid..... So I just talked to him. Covered him up when it was juuust about dark (will wait longer tomorrow night). It seemed dark, but now it's darker. Oops...

One more thing. I told my husband but wouldn't tell anybody else for fear of them thinking I was 100% insane... But I know you guys will understand. Earlier this evening, a couple hours after the bad bite when I was talking to him quietly, he said ever so clearly (and no, not joking or exaggerating): I'm sorry. I immediately welled up with tears. It was incredible. YES, it's likely that it just SOUNDED perfectly like "I'm sorry"..... But it was incredible. Anybody could have heard it and known EXACTLY what he said, with no question. How's that for a special little 'coincidence' (or not so much)...

He is special. I am just stressed to the max and hurting. But I bet not as much as he is. And that's what makes me hurt more.

[Wolf]

Quite interesting as most of what I have run across is that if they have had very little time out of their cage they don't want to come out of it and it is called cage bound and is the reason that I suggested that he probably was accustomed to a lot of time out of the cage. Interesting.
I did suspect that he was very attached to someone, possibly the previous owner. And this was partly due to his conflicting actions of trying to stay with and on you while at the same time attacking you. I didn't say anything about that as it could also have been due to his fear of a new place and being alone. I wondered about several of his behaviors due to their conflicting natures, I wondered if it was the human that he was attached to or if there had been a mate for this bird that he was separated from, but could not tell and I am usually pretty accurate at filling in the blanks going by their behavior. I must admit that this one has definitely got me guessing.
Yes I do understand and have had similar experiences with one of my birds.

[mikella]

Thanks again Wolf for talking. His old owner is really shocked that this is going on because, other than during 'puberty,' he had never been 'aggressive.' He did get lots of attention up until 1.5 years ago. And even in the last 1.5 years he had a budgie and a cockatiel in the same cage with him.

I didn't find this out about the other birds, despite trying to clarify things, until after committing to taking him. I was concerned when I found out. He also lost his best budgie pal a while back and was depressed. Had a spell of plucking...

No plucking as of now. But he is one unhappy boy...

It's hard because I know I can provide a safe, loving home with lots of time together, and I wish he knew that so he could stop hurting. But that doesn't change the fact that this safe, loving home just isn't what he's used to. It's not HIS HOME right now. So it's irrelevant.

Do you think this will eventually be ok.......? Do you think he will eventually accept me and bond with me? Or will I never fill his old owner's place?

I'm assuming that at this point, introducing another bird is not quite the answer, correct?

I've been up for a couple hours, waiting to uncover his cage at 6:30 - don't want to sleep through that time. I really am trying to do whatever I can... I need all the help and advice I can get right now. This is such a learning curve adopting as opposed to having a bird from the time it's a baby.

[Wolf]

That is the missing piece, thank you. I understand your birds behavior now and it makes sense to me.
It is a difficult thing for these birds to be rehomed not only because of the fears and anxiety of a new and potentially dangerous place, but because of the mental and emotional loss of loved ones. In this case not only the previous owner but also of his bird friends. He was mate bonded to them or at least one of them, and from your description this bird lost his budgie friend, his human, and his cockatiel buddy. And possibly another budgie friend, unless it was the same one that he lost a while back. That,my friend, is a whole lot of grief for such a little bird to deal with all at once. To this little bird there is only one reason for the disappearance of his human and bird companions and that is that they are dead.
The picture is something like this:
His human was withdrawing from him and he knew this because she was not spending as much time with him as before. He did not like this turn of events, but he was still ok as he had his bird companions to help him cope and to play with( play is relative). So although he was confused by this, he is alright, then his budgie companion dies and now he is depressed and grieving this loss. Then you show up and you take him away to a new place. Suddenly he is all alone with no one that he knew and he is terrified because of the strangeness of this new place and the added loss of his last two or three companions al at once. He doesn't know what happened to them and keeps calling out for them, but gets no answer so he must assume that they are dead. This makes you the reason for him to be in such a dangerous place, and since his companions are not answering and presumed to be dead, he knows that he is in mortal danger too and you are responsible for this.
This explains the constant screaming, the depression as well as the anger and aggression towards you. It explains why he wants to be out of the cage and on you as well as his attacks at the same time. It all makes sense to me now.
You could get him a new companion, but you would have to quarantine the new bird for at least 30 days for his safety and still would not know that he would accept much less bond with it. Still it is well worth considering.
The more time that you can spend with him talking to him and singing to him the better, he desperately needs your company, even though he is afraid of you , he needs you to be there for him and to comfort and reassure him as best you can while he comes to understand that the new place is not dangerous for him and that you will not let anything hurt him especially that you will not hurt him and that you only bring and give him good things. He is afraid, but with your help it will pass. He is alone, but not so alone if you will be with him through this. He is grieving, but if you will support him through his grieving process then it to will pass and the world will get much better for him and he will bond to you and be fine.
Please try to understand what has happened to him, it explains all of his behavior and is not your fault and it is not his either. Without this information it made no sense, but now you can see what is occurring as well as why and that is the key to helping the both of you through this difficult time of transition.
I hope that this will help both of you and relieve some of the confusion and stress that you are feeling so that you can help him through his confusion and stress. It will get much better, just be patient with him and be there for him now and it will pay off big time soon.

[mikella]

Yes. You are right. Come last night I was really beginning to understand... The shock was starting to wear off and he was AFRAID. So so much change and loss... Plus a new, strange place and new, strange people. I didn't realize that his sweetness the first few days was just bc he was really nervous and in shock. And when he started biting, I assumed it was hormones bc of the really bizarre call he did that I was talking about and the odd posture (I do still think his hormones are likely wacky, but the biting is because he doesn't trust us and is super upset about everything). Now I'm really beginning to 'get it'... I wonder if that call/posture is for his friends. It's like a hawk, almost sounds like a retching sound... Loud and painful sounding.

I did explain about the other birds, but it was on the other page, first post I think, so wasn't mentioned in the most recent convos. Basically, there was a budgie that he was mate bonded with who passed away, and she got another budgie to try to help but they didn't bond (not like that anyways, they ignored each other, but they were company which is the important part). So, it was Quigley (this guy's name), the new budgie, and a cockatiel in the cage. From my understanding, the cockatiel was in the cage throughout (from mate budgie, new budgie, til the time he came to me). I'm going to try to confirm all this info again, and find out exactly how long since his mate passed away. I think mate died two years ago. It's hard to get info out of the old owner... She's super busy and stressed. I will see what she says and let you know.

So, my husband whipped up the perfect T-perch to 'transport' him on and he's afraid of it. So, I put my hood up and tied it tight and have been keeping my hands inside my sleeves. He's been out a couple hours already today, but just put him in and gave him some of his pellets to eat... He will only eat the fruit out of the gloop (need to pick up some organic veggies and seeds, we've got 4 feet of snow just in the last month so the banks are ten feet + high everywhere, so I'm staying put until I need to go out tomorrow haha)... And his poops are liquid this morning from the fruit so I wanted him to have SOMETHING. I needed to clean up some poop on the kitchen floor so I put him in his cage with the top open so he could roam around it, and I walked out of the room and down the short hall to the kitchen, talking to him, and no sooner did I stoop to wipe than I heard a flutter, immediately turned into the hall to go get him and he was RIGHT THERE, had ran all the way down the hall just about to the kitchen in two seconds flat. I got on the floor and he waddled to me, took a big chomp out of the inside of my arm, and hopped up. I didn't react. Just sat on the floor with him on my leg. After several minutes he started biting through my pants so I stood slowly and he climbed up. Didn't react to the bite.

How long do you suspect he may feel like this..? Not because of me and I want him to be lovey, but because it pains me to see him like this... It just breaks my heart. I want relief for HIM.

[Pajarita]

First things first. Do not think for one minute that you were the one that made him bite (this bird already bit before he came to you). Do not stress out over the situation (it's just a temporary set-back). Do not feel guilty about making mistakes (we all did and continue making them). Let me make something 100% clear to you: you did this bird a HUGE favor by taking him and he will bond with you.

I knew for a fact and from the beginning that this bird had been neglected for a long time because this is the ONLY reason that makes GCCs attack. It was the previous owner that did this, not you. People lie through their teeth when it comes to rehoming their animals... it's always that they no longer have the time or that they need to move or whatever but 99% of the time is that they screwed up the poor animal and they no longer want to deal with the consequences. A GCC that was missing his owner and was well treated might nip if you ask for something from it before he is ready to give it to you (like asking them to step up when they don't know you from Adam) but they will not actively go after you to bite you.

The mistakes you made are NOTHING! All you did was let the poor bird out after he had been confined to a cage for years and try to show love. It might have been a bit to soon but it's not as if you mistreated it and birds are very forgiving of these things. And, believe me when I tell you that parrot keeping is all about learning from your mistakes because they are so different from what we know (domesticated mammals) that not making mistakes is impossible. So, don't stress out every time you realize you did something wrong, my dear, just relax and put things into perspective and simply change what you did wrong.

Now, don't give up on the T stick. He might not like it but he can get used to it. Start by putting it in front of him holding with one hand while you hold a treat with the other on the other side of the stick and close so he can reach it if he steps up on the stick and stretches out his neck but far enough that he would need to do exactly that to get it. If he doesn't do it, don't worry, put it aside and try 10 minutes later but don't give him the treat unless he does step on it and when he does, praise, praise, praise, praise! By the way, you need to identify what constitutes a high value item for him. This is a food item that he likes very, very much and it's usually a seed or a nut (try with a shelled almond, first). Once you identify this item, only give it to him as a reward.

He wasn't been 'sweet' when he first came, he was in what we call the honeymoon stage. When parrots come to a new home, they feel insecure and vulnerable so they don't usually attack or bite because they don't know what the consequences of such actions would be. But, as soon as they feel more comfortable, they start showing their true colors. BUT birds that have been abused or severely neglected start biting immediately or very soon after -and this is what happened to Quigley and how I knew that he had not been treated right in his previous home. These birds have lost their trust in people so they feel they have very little or nothing to lose from being 'bad' from the very beginning.

Don't let him bite you. I know that the common advice out there is not to react when you are bit but, in my personal opinion, the reason they give for it is wrong. People say if you do, the bird will keep on biting just to enjoy the 'drama' of it but parrots are much smarter than that and they know very well the difference between 'fun drama' and an exclamation of pain. They also say that if you do react, they will keep on doing it because you are showing them that it hurt and, as that was what they wanted to do, you are 'enabling' their aggression. Which is also bunk because parrots are not naturally aggressive. Nature does not give traits that are not needed and parrots do not need to be aggressive because they are not predators that need to kill to eat or live in a hierarchical society where members fight for the top position. Parrots bite only when they are defending themselves or protecting their loved ones. Pet parrots will sometimes get into the habit of biting for the simple reason that people taught them that this is the only way they can get their point across or that we, humans, cannot be trusted at all (this was the reason why a male GCC I got attacked, he has been mistreated and severely neglected and he felt that all humans were the same. But, in time, he realized that this isn't so and he stopped -and Quigley will, too.). Parrots know that, when they bite, they are hurting you. Let me tell you what happened yesterday. I had Zoey (female Senegal) on my shoulder and Sweet (male Senegal I am trying to get to bond with Zoey) kept on flying down to my left hand to do the mating dance on it. But I was typing and he was bothering me so I asked him to step up to a stick (I know better than to offer my hand to a male during breeding season to interfere with his display to a female!) and, by the third time I did it, he got mad and clamped on to my hand. He did not break the skin or even made a bruise but it was a hard nip so I said a loud OUUUCH and shaking my hand so he had no choice but to fly off, I told him he was a BAD bird. He made a circle in the air, came down to the table and said: "Oh, come here, baby. You OK? You OK?" - this is EXACTLY what I say to them when something happens that might have hurt or scared them. So, you see? He knew he had hurt me and reacted to my pain. There was no doubt in his mind that this was NOT 'fun drama'. So, do react, say OUCH and tell him he is a bad bird. You need to show your displeasure and pain. Parrots are highly empathetic and would console you when you know you are hurting - even if that is what they wanted to do in the first place Not reacting makes no sense whatsoever! Parrots react with a squawk when they are bit by another one... a weaker one would fly away but a stronger one would retaliate by lunging if not actually biting them so why would people think that not reacting at all works to make them stop? Now, I am not saying you should retaliate, mind you! Show your displeasure and pain, scold him and put him in his cage for 5 minutes (by the clock, not more and no less) and then let him out again. And, if he does it again, back he goes into his cage for another 5 minutes.

Now, as to schedule, I am uncovering mine at 6:30 am, turning on the overhead lights at around 7:30 am, turning them off at 6:00 pm (I feed them dinner at this time) and covering them at 7:30 to 7:45 pm but it also depends on how bright the day is because rainy days are shorter than bright sunny ones.