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Hello and Request for Help :)

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Re: Hello and Request for Help :)

Postby Wolf » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:38 am

He is very, very hormonal and going by the severity of the biting is most likely in constant pain, from swollen gonads. I don't recall if we explained exactly what happens to cause all of this distress, so I will give it a shot, it won't make it any better, but it may help your peace of mind through understanding.
A birds sexual organs ( gonads) are all inside of the birds body ( which I am sure that you already know) where they have only a very limited amount of space. Normally they are quite small and are at rest, but when the bird hits puberty and its first breeding season the combination of the length of the days and an abundance of protein rich food causes the biological clock to signal the endocrine system to start producing the sex hormones which cause the gonads to swell up and begin functioning. This is not normally a problem and in a few months the endocrine system stops producing the hormones and the bird goes through molt and the gonads shrink to their normal tiny size and are again at rest.
But, we changed everything when we took these birds from the wild and started feeding them protein rich foods all the time and we replace their normal source of light with artificial lighting and we tricked their body into believing that it is always breeding season as a result of this human lifestyle once the bird goes into puberty and its first breeding cycle their body never shuts the hormones off and the gonads keep growing. Believe it or not they are capable of enlarging in excess of 100 times their normal size and there is not that much room inside of the birds body and once the gonads reach a certain size there is no more room for this growth. This results in the gonads being squeezed from all sides and the resulting pressure also crowds and shifts the position of the birds other internal organs and this is all very painful and as the gonads keep growing the pain keeps increasing. The bird tries frantically to find some release from this, but until we reduce the protein and fat content of their food and get them on a strict solar light schedule like the wild birds are on this situation only gets worse. Reversing this takes time, a lot of time but it is the only known cure for this condition and the only release from this intense pain.
This is the cause of all of the biting and scurrying about and looking for a nest site as well as the screaming. I truly wish that there was another faster way to correct this problem for the birds sake as well as for yours. Unfortunately, there is no other effective way to treat this condition.
I see no valid reason that you should not protect yourself from him during this time as these bites are painful and each one leaves its own little scar, you don't need these things, so by all me and protect yourself until his system straightens out. I went through this with my Senegal, it took the first year for things to straighten out. It was something that is done to these birds and when it is over you will have a much sweeter bird. I could not really ask for a more affectionate bird than Kiki is now that her system is functioning properly, and GCC's are known for being very affectionate birds. Try to remember that this is much, much harder of your bird than it is on you and he truly does not want this any more than you do, it is beyond his control and is not his fault.
Wolf
Macaw
 
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Re: Hello and Request for Help :)

Postby mikella » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:00 am

Oh I completely know it's not his fault... And I know he feels miserable. It makes me feel so bad... He is certainly hormonal, I know. He had a moult not long before I took him in, and he was displaying hormonal behaviour within the first week. Now, it has ramped up. I just need advice on how to muddle through this time until it eases.

List of questions:
Could you give me a rundown on 'breeding season?' Approximately when it starts and stops, what behaviours are associated with it (other than 'the dance'/rooting around/increased aggression)?
Should we discourage (as in, try to keep redirecting) rooting behaviour?
Is it ok to have him on our clothes at all?
Any info about managing him/how to handle/treat him so as to not make it worse or maybe help a bit? (I know no touching other than head.)
Do you think he might still moult after this? Or since he moulted recently, that will continue to be messed up? (I know it could take a year or more to really have his endocrine system sorted.)
I've noticed for quite a while now that me leaving the room often triggers his 'dance'... Me feeding him, me looking at him it seems. ANY ways I can help? I'm still thinking his protein is likely too high since he likes the grains moreso than veggies... How much, in tsp/tbsp of GRAIN should be in his breakfast?

I've been telling my husband that I think this will be WAY better come summer, in a few months. This is instinctual behaviour, a lot of it. I know it. COUPLED with him not seeming to be my biggest fan and him seeming to go much easier on my husband. Maybe this is in my head, but...
mikella
Conure
 
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Re: Hello and Request for Help :)

Postby liz » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:20 am

I know nothing about Conures but I do know what you are going through.
We all have parrot clothes. I have some blouses that have to be held together with safety pins from the inside because all the buttons are gone.
I have 2 Amazons in season right now and 1 cockatiel without a mate who has not adjusted to the schedule and is laying an egg once a week. She does not want me to take the eggs out unless one of the others has broken it.
I don't know if it is a good thing but giving Rambo and Myrtle cardboard boxes to tare up seem to calm them. It gives them something to consentrate on other than how they feel. [i]But mine are cuddly while in season.[/i]
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liz
Macaw
 
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BF Amazon Myrtle
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Andy Impy Louise Twila Leroy
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Re: Hello and Request for Help :)

Postby mikella » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:41 am

I have tried paper towel for him to rip up (although probably not the best thing for him to have his mouth on...), toilet paper rolls, paper......... He has no interest in anything but us. Won't fiddle with ANYTHING.
mikella
Conure
 
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Re: Hello and Request for Help :)

Postby liz » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:30 am

Myrtle likes paper grocery bags and cat toys with bells. I fold the top of the grocery bags back so they stay open. Rambo claimed an old cage that a cockatiel came in for his nite nite cage. Myrtle was afraid to go back into a cage to sleep for fear I would close the door. She slept in a paper bag for a year.
Show him how to tare up a cardboard box while telling him how much fun it is. Rambo makes pieces the size of my thumbnail.

I know, these are stupid responses but it seems the more stupid they more they like them.
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liz
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Re: Hello and Request for Help :)

Postby mikella » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:35 am

Not stupid at all.

I have cat balls for him, but no luck. Going to try the paper bag later, see what he thinks of it. I hate to think that he is likely bored (AND hormonal as heck).... He just doesn't have any interest in anything but us, and that's hard when he is biting.

Little positive note: He had some blueberry this morning. Slowly slowly with the food.
mikella
Conure
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Re: Hello and Request for Help :)

Postby Wolf » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:06 am

It is so very difficult to know what to do, because there really isn't much that you can do that has not been suggested already. I probably would try to discourage him from hunting up dark places to hide in or for use as a nesting area, but only because of safety concerns. Maybe the thing to do would be to supply him with a big box with several smaller boxes inside of it getting progressively smaller in size and maybe with some paper surrounding each box and in the smallest box so as to give him a safe place to hunt for a nesting spot. Is this a right thing to do? I honestly don't know, but it would be better than running him down all over the place or for him to get up inside of a sofa or overstuffed chair or recliner where he could easily get killed without you realizing it at the time.
I have always worked with animals and am so used to them helping me to destroy my clothing that the majority of my clothes are animal clothes with just a couple of sets of clothes set aside that they don't ever touch.
It is hard for me to suggest discouraging any of these behaviors because in normal circumstances they might be inconvenient but that would be the worst of it, also these are ingrained instinctual behaviors and messing with them could in my opinion cause more harm than good. Because of this I normally just adopt a grin and bear it attitude.
I think that the reason that Quigley goes for the grains is because the are more like the seeds that he is most accustomed to. They are still seeds after all , but they are lower in fat and protein than the normal seeds that are given to them to eat. Maybe you could consider running some of the veggies through a blender and chopping them up really fine and adding them to the whole grains as well as the knife chopped veggies which will add texture until he starts eating more of the vegetables that are in it. Other than that I can only suggest patience. I would give him about a quarter of a cup of the grain/ vegetable/ bean mix and just adjust it up or down so that he still has a little left at the end of the day before dinner time and then give him his seed mix.
The aggression is really the biggest issue and you don't want to encourage the biting and here your only possible defense is protecting yourself from the bites, avoiding them when you see that he is being moody and putting him down or back in his cage when he bites and try again a little later. Beyond that again all you can do is be patient. As long as you keep him on a strict solar schedule and a low fat, low protein diet, this will all pass it just takes time and patience.
Molting, I don't know if he will go into a normal molt as this improves until the breeding season comes and goes that would be a normal breeding season. Kiki did not molt after she stopped being overly hormonal, this is her first normal breeding season and it is such a relief from the way that she was to begin with as she is actually very sweet this time. Sure she does still have an unforeseen biteing reaction once in a while but even then they are much less harsh and she will listen to me when I tell her to stop biting me and only draws blood a couple of time a week during this season. Pajarita can help you more on what the normal breeding season is especially with this species of parrot as they were a native species where she grew up. And As I said earlier this is my first actual normal breeding season, but this breeding season should be nearly over.
You are doing very well with this situation and especially since it was so unexpected you are to be commended for hanging in there and sticking it out. From your description it does appear that for now that Quigley is choosing you husband as his special person, but when this is over that may or may not change as your poor bird is not in his right mind at this time. Hang in there, you are doing great in a difficult time.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
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African Grey (CAG)
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Re: Hello and Request for Help :)

Postby liz » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:03 am

I don't know if someone has already told you but you are the parent. Not only do you have to eat and share the foods you want him to eat but you have to have fun playing with his toys in front of him.
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liz
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Andy Impy Louise Twila Leroy
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Re: Hello and Request for Help :)

Postby mikella » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:40 pm

Yes, I do all that.
mikella
Conure
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Re: Hello and Request for Help :)

Postby Pajarita » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:50 pm

OK, let's see... breeding season: normally, you notice that they started producing sexual hormones around mid-March because this is when they go into recognizable breeding behaviors but they register the gradual lengthening of the days by mid-January (which is about 2 weeks after the winter solstice and when they days are already 20 minutes longer and some pet parrots even go through a partial molt at this time). But, in your bird's case, because he did not start with dormant gonads, there is no real 'gradual' anything as he did not start from zero growth so everything is not only intensified but also quite at a critical point from early on. How long it will take for his gonads to be reduced to their normal resting season (when they are tiny and dormant), for his endocrine system to go back in tune with the season and for his body to get rid completely of all the sexual hormones flowing in his blood depends on how long he had been kept at a human light schedule, whether his diet has effectively become lower in protein and the species (and I say this because although it usually takes me 2 to 3 seasons to get them back to a bird normal circannual cycle, I once had a show and breeding lovebird hen that took all four seasons (she had become a chronic layer and it took that long for her to finally get back on track -she did not lay the entire year but she was not completely following the seasons until a year later).

Dark 'cavities': GCCs are one species that will look for them even when they are not producing sexual hormones (quakers and sun conures are the other two) and that's why they like to sleep in their little huts (isn't he using the one you made for him?).

Chewing clothes: Some birds are terrible at it, some hardly ever touch them and, when they do, just telling them not to works. I don't really know exactly what makes one bird be obsessed with making holes in our clothes while others are not... All have the capacity to do it and all do it at one point or another and seem to enjoy it - it's a bit like biting: not 'if' but 'when' and how bad it is depends on the severity of the action and, also the same as biting, it can be just once in a blue moon or it can be constant. Liz is correct in that we all have 'parrot clothes' (I have a entire shelf in my closet with TShirts with designer 'ventilation' :lol: ). I took in a young jenday from CL because the ad said he was 'incorrigible' and the people were asking for so little money that I was afraid he was going to end up in a bad home and the only real 'bad' problem with him was that they ONLIEST thing he wanted to do with you was chew your clothes big time! It took about a year of me telling him not to and getting him off me when he did for him to stop (mind you, my 'getting him off me' was just me making him fly off my shoulder, back or wherever he was perched on me -he used to hang on to the waist of my pants on the back so he could 'hide' his chewing from me :D - but all he did was fly off, make a U turn in the air and alight back on me -which was fine as long as he did not resume his 'entertainment' but, if he did (and for months and months he went back to it immediately), off he went again. I am not going to deny that this will try Job's patience and it certainly did mine but even when something looks futile, if you persist, it will work and he is now fine, perches on my shoulder, kisses my cheeks, etc without chewing my clothes. Problem is, yours cannot fly off... Has he gotten any good at stepping up to the stick? Because, if he has, issue the command (I use a phrase in Spanish: "La ropa no!" which means "Not the clothes!" because I like to use specific commands for specific actions and not just a generic 'Stop it!') in a firm tone of voice, immediately ask him to step on on the Tstick and put him on top of his cage for a couple of minutes. Most likely, he will start doing it again as soon as he gets back on you but, like I said, if you keep at it and keep at it and keep at it, he will stop.

Entertainment: when he becomes 'fixated' (as you say) on biting for a while, give him a bath. My GCCs all liked to bathe immensely, they all did it in a bowl as well as under the faucet and it not only distracts them from what they are doing but also provides a 'long' distraction because after the bath comes preening. Now, mind you, you can't bathe him late in the afternoon because he needs enough time to dry completely before he goes to bed. You can also give him a short training session to get his mind off the biting... I don't think that giving him cardboard to chew will interest him... at least, I don't remember any of mine chewing it -they liked things like dry corn husks, raffia, rope, stuff that can be shredded rather than chewed but try the cardboard, who knows? Mine were not big toy users... none of my birds are, actually. Codee just likes to ride my shoulder while I do my chores and, when she is not, she just hangs out with her boyfriend in the canary room, climbing all over their cages and such.

Diet: he is doing great, Mikella! Blueberries are excellent nutrition, full of great antioxidants. And don't worry about the grains, they are much lower in protein and infinitely lower in fat than seeds (cereals or grains are not seeds, by the way, they are actually the fruit of the plant).

I know it's disheartening to try so hard and see what appears to be little improvement but it's not that things are not working, it's that we are in breeding season so, by necessity, things will have to go slow until July... I really feel terrible for him, poor thing! and for you. But things will get better in time. And, even if he picks your husband as his chosen one, it doesn't mean he will not change his mind or that he will not have a wonderful relationship with you, too. Now, there is another method of controlling an over production of sexual hormones but I really do NOT recommend it (I hate it, actually). It's to give him Lupron or something similar. Lupron was invented as a contraceptive for mammals (dogs, specifically) and, what it does is make the body increase production of sexual hormones so much that, the body, realizing there is something VERY wrong, shuts down production completely. There are several problems with Lupron aside from the obvious (correcting a screwed up endocrine system by making it so much worse doesn't seem like a good course of action to me), it doesn't always work, it doesn't work long term and nobody knows what the long term effects of it is or what the perfect dosage would be for each species. I don't like it at all and would never use it on any of my birds but I think you should be aware of all the options regardless of whether I agree with them or not.
Pajarita
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