Hello and Request for Help :)

[mikella]

Mating/hormonal behaviour - mainly the pacing back and forth with drooping wings, or the noodley swaying neck, masturbating... When he masturbates, I don't say anything, just leave him alone. When he paces or does noodle neck I get excited with him (because I thought this was just 'happy' behaviour before, didn't know until I asked that it was mating behaviour). So should I NOT cheer him on? Or does it matter?

My husband does, yes - he can move things, adjust things/whatever, have his hands near Quigley, touch him.... He has his moments of course, but for the most part Quigley just 'accepts' his hands and doesn't seem bothered by them. Last night he lunged at him and bit his hand though when he was on me and my husband offered his hand to step up.

Here's how it goes with my husband - He comes home, Quigley's all excited, husband offers hand, Quigley hops up and onto his shoulder, then he immediately goes to the neck of his shirt and pokes around inside, husband lets him in shirt, etc. and Quigley has a jolly time haha Then husband goes in bedroom and sits on bed and watches tv and Quigley does whatever he wants, hands are right there in contact with him.

With me, we tidy the house/vacuum/laundry/etc., he's on my shoulder with hood up, or on arm with hand up sleeve, if I'm in the kitchen, he has a little cage in here too, and a t-stand that he can get to from the top of the cage. I feed him there every day throughout the day when I'm eating. We also will sit in a chair or on the bed, but hands are always covered because he lunges. He REALLY lunged earlier today when my hand wasn't covered and just got the opening of my sleeve (he was on my lap) and I'm pretty sure it would have been my worst bite yet if he had gotten me. That said, once in a while I'm not sure if he simply wants to just check my hand out, test it, or bite... Sometimes I wonder if it's worse to cover my hands. Maybe he just needs to bite it some more and realize it's not necessary and not ok. I don't know. He will scoot right back to it if he wants a scratch though... But the way he charges down my arm when my hand is in sight or he doesn't feel like having my arm close is scary haha It's the fastest he ever moves.

[Wolf]

Kiki, my Senegal does her little mating dance, every now and then, on my hand. It is really kind of cute, as well as sweet in its own way, so I don't do anything about it. When she decides to regurgitate, I again don't try to do anything about it although I don't encourage her. When Kiki does this she bobs her head up and down, Skeeter, my parrotlet get a snaky neck and weaves his head from side to side.
Kiki, loves to hang out on me, she likes to perch on my shoulder and on my hands more than any where else. This is all good in I am sitting still for the most part, but she does not like it when I am doing things like cleaning the cages, or sweeping or doing the dishes. It seems like she resents the movement as she has to actually hold on instead of just sitting there. This might account for Quigley's actions, especially with regards to some of his biting as these activities will always get Kiki to bite me. The end result is that if I have things to do and she starts biting me, I place her on top of her cage while I do these things.

[Pajarita]

I don't have that many birds that show mating behaviors to me - actually, come to think on it, it's only one, Sweetpea, the male Senegal who used to hate my guts with a passion. You think Quigley is bad? HA! - this bird would attack me constantly all the time I was in the birdroom for 3.5 whole years! I have scars on my legs, a notch missing from one ear and bumps on both from his bites where the scar cartilage grew too much. When he does the 'dance' on my hand, I just sing "Round and round and round he goes, when he will stop, nobody knows!". Just ride it out and simply don't encourage the masturbation or regurgitation, he will calm down as time goes by.

As to his biting your hands, have you tried wearing close-fitted gloves on them? I would try different ones like rubber, cotton and leather and see how he reacts to them.

[mikella]

He doesn't get irritated with my husband though, Wolf. He's out in the kitchen right now doing stuff with Quigley on him and he's fine. His only issue with him is that he's obsessed with going inside the neck of his shirt and he nips and nips HARD in there. Quigley is the same with my hands whether I'm moving or not. When he's sleepy he'll let them be in his sight though if I'm not moving. He's still going at my face with hood up, I don't know if he still would with my hood down or not, but I'm not going to try again for a while. I just don't trust him... He just seems to have a grudge sometimes and he's really unpredictable. Yesterday wasn't a good day. I think having my husband around in the mornings on weekends messes him up. He's here until 9. Usually he leaves the house at 7:30 and Quigley doesn't come out until it's with me after breakfast. Today he is chirping noooooooonstop, even WITH my husband.

Pajarita, I think I will try gloves. I've been considering it. They will likely freak him out, but it will help me not be afraid of bites and bridge the gap perhaps between totally covered hands and bare hands. Who knows. We'll see what happens. I'll see what ones I can find around here and go from there.

Going to write shortly bc I need suggestions about something. Be back.

[Wolf]

I think that the best answer that I can give you is that when Quigley bites you that you put him down along with telling him " no bite" or something similar. You have to be consistent with this or it send mixed signals to him. The message that you want him to understand is that if he wants to be with you and spend time on you that he can't bite you. Both you and your husband need to send this same message every time so that he gets it.

[Pajarita]

Yes, he needs to understand that although shoulder time is not really a privilege, certain 'niceties' are to be observed, that's why I suggested the cage for 5 minutes by the clock.

And, yes, any change in routine upset the ones with issues but this disappears as they 'calm' down and start 'seeing' the pattern.

[mikella]

This isn't what I wanted thoughts on, I'll be back about that.

But... I think I ROYALLY frigged things up today. I tried gloves. First he was scared for a minute, then he was politely nibbling to check them out, then he started biting them. So each time I would leave him on the T-stand (he can get to other things from it) and walk around the corner and wait a couple minutes. Problem was..... He was biting it each time, so the same thing kept happening... So he eventually just totally avoided them and would move away, didn't even want to take a treat from my hand. I kept trying different things and got him to stand on my hand twice for a treat. But.... Overall, I think it was a really stressful experience for him. I tried doing the same thing once with my bare hand, just getting him to walk down my arm onto my bare hand for a treat and he did, slowly, but then he started beaking HARD on my hand.... May as well call it biting.

I am so PISSED at myself for not just STOPPING... I wanted him to 'succeed' and relax about it so I kept trying with the stupid gloves much longer than I should have. I went about it ALL wrong...

I NEED him to stop biting... I can't always scramble to cover my hands. I'm covered up head to toe, I can't get anything done that I need to get done...................... I can handle him when I'm all covered - but I can't do this forever. I NEED my hands. And I also know he NEEDS to be out with me. I just wish I knew what would help this.

No 'method' seems to be like "ok, yeah, this is right for him/can help us"... Nothing quite fits for either of us. And I do know that anything will take time; it's not that. Ignoring doesn't work because he bites or beaks really hard so often. "No bite" and putting him down is really difficult because he's virtually impossible to get on a t-stick afterwards to put him elsewhere/up on hand (if husband) to put him elsewhere bc he KNOWS what you're doing and he scrambles like his life is depending on it to get away to avoid being taken off of you... So you either end up FORCING him on to the t-stick or he will bite your hand - neither of which is good.

I feel really bad about all of this. I feel like I'm just messing him up more.

[Harpmaker]

Don't beat yourself up, Mikella, just resolve to do better. Pajarita often mentions how forgiving parrots are, and if you keep trying I'm sure Quigley will get over any mistakes.


One thing I do when my Corsair is in a bitey mood is to give her a warning "Ow" , slowly and in an ominous tone before she closes her beak. It doesn't always work, but is worth trying. I also use it when she tries to bite my phone or laptop. If she thinks I feel it when she bites my electronics, that's fine with me. I can almost see the wheels turning in her little head.

All the parrots get restless during mating season. This is Corsair's first mating season as an adult, and she is chewing all the furniture and cupboard doors. I continue to hope she will go back to only occasionally attacking fixtures by the end of July, so I can get rid of the towels draped on everything.

[Wolf]

Can you work things so that you can do a certain amount of things and then let him out for an hour, put him back in or on his cage while you do more stuff? If you can then you have created a way to give him a treat as well as time to do things. Just offer a high value treat every time you place him in the cage. And since he isn't biting you maybe he will cut back on it as his hormones drop. The only effective way to teach them to not bite is to not get bitten. Sounds simple, but we sometimes have to get really creative in accomplishing it. If you can learn to read his body language you can see when he is in a biting mode and avoid handling him during these periods of time. This is why we keep coming back to the same points, that being that if distraction is not working then not handling him while he is bitey is pretty much the way to go, as it teaches him that if he wants to be with you then he must not bite. I really don't know of any other way to do this.

[mikella]

That's a good reminder - best way to teach not to bite is to not get bitten. Hoodie and hands up sleeves will remain then. Do you think I will KNOW when we're ready to stop covering? Maybe when he stops running down to my hand? But at the same time, I never want him to learn that he HAS to stay away from my hands. Also, is there any way at all to know in the moment if he's running down to simply check things out vs bite?

I wish I could take today back. He was fine with me later though. Although he did go at my face twice (he just has tiny hissy fits)... That is REALLY unpredictable when he does that. One time was at my hood, one time was at my hood and he made it to my cheek but only grazed it. I think the hood irritates him because he probably feels a degree of separation from me. That could be all it is. We were all in the kitchen, I was talking to husband, and he probably wanted face to face attention. I started putting my hood up again initially though because he kept BONKING my face, sometimes with open beak. So, I don't trust what the little fits would be sans hood, bc the fits are more than a snap/bonk. I need to preserve the trust I do have with him... If he attacked/bit my face I would have an extra hard time trusting after that.

New day tomorrow.