Hello and Request for Help :)

[Pajarita]

OK, next chapter on the 'bird bible' we have on this thread I misunderstood, I did not realize you were trying to get him off you with the Tstick when he was refusing so, yes, keep on doing this and, if you find it takes too long because you need to walk to a mirror (this really cracked me up!), just keep a hand towel tucked around into waist and use it to grab him and put him on or in his cage for FIVE minutes (I know you said he wants it to be shorter but 5 minutes is
really not a long time, just long enough for him to really want to get back on you). And talk all the time you are doing it, loud and in an angry tone of voice, repeating the 'Bad, BAD bird! Do not bite!' all the way to the cage but stop once you get there. Now, I NEVER recommend grabbing a bird but, in this case, I do think it's justified and let me explain why: THERE NEEDS TO BE A NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCE TO HIS BITING AND HE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO MANIPULATE THE CONSEQUENCE. I don't believe in punishment per se and I certainly do not believe in punishing a bird for doing something that is just a natural behavior (like screaming) but he can't be allowed to bite all the time for no good reason and, although putting him off you for a 5 minute time-out should be enough, it won't be if he, smart cookie that he is, dodges it (this puts him back in control of the situation). A comparison would be like a child running around a table after he did something wrong, I don't ever hit my older grandchildren, I never have any need, but, when they are little and need to learn certain things for their own good, I do, not hard, mind you, at most (and this is HARDLY ever and only when they are been real rotten with each other, show disrespect or keep on doing something I told them 3 or 4 times not to) I would swat them on their booties with my open hand but, once they get to an age (around 5 or 6), they think they are smarter than adults and start running around the table to prevent me from doing it so I move chairs to block them and, when I catch them, I give them a couple of good, stinging slaps, one more and a bit harder than I would have if they had not ran around the table. Plus, I start a long tirade in Spanish/French in a loud and angry voice (they don't understand all I am saying -but they learn certain words that I, apparently, say all the time and I realized this yesterday when I was doing it to my 5 year old and his 10 year old sister started saying some of them- but they sure understand the gist of it ). It only takes a few times of this for them to learn that avoiding the consequence of their misbehavior is worse than just taking it - and none of them have ever held it against me, as a matter of fact, they tell me all the time that they want to come and live with me because "You are the nicest person we know, Nana."

It's imperative that he learns that biting is not going to get him what he wants and that been nice will and I can't think of any other way of doing this.

Wolf is right about his arms and hands been a mess with bites and I can attest to this personally as I saw the bruises from these bites when he came to pick up Skeeter. I've also had little bruises and sickle-shape cuts on my hands, arms, legs, feet, etc as well as ear and even head bites that drew blood. Right now, in the middle of the breeding season, tempers are hot in the birdroom and I got two bites -small ones and not real hard at all but they did break the skin a bit. One was kind of an accident but the other one as a hard nip done on purpose. There are parrots that never bite. They are few and far between but they do exist and even them would sometimes hurt you without even meaning to so bites go with territory and there is really nothing you can do to prevent them completely.

Don't worry about his diet and what he eats and doesn't eat, he will, in time, eat almost everything. It just takes a looooooong time and a lot of insisting. I had a gray that got blueberries (something all parrots love) once a week for 5 years before she decided to try one. Quigley's diet has improved 200% in a short time and will continue to improve but this improvement will be more in spurts than constant as time goes by.

You are doing good, Mikella, you really are! Don't worry so much about permanent trauma from a mistake or two, parrots are very forgiving when they realize that the mistakes are not done out of anything else than good intentions. He will find his 'groove' and it will go real fast once he is not producing sexual hormones, just keep at it and you'll see.

[mikella]

That was actually exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you for that. I am trying so desperately to help him and do everything I'm told because I know that you guys have experience and knowledge that I don't... But I think I need to take back my life a bit and use my own judgement. Let time do a little of the work.

I think this was what CML was getting at... To go slow with him because it's such a drastic change in his life and he will need a lot of time to adjust and heal. Too much time out can cause too much stress for both of us. And I 100% agree with you that he senses and feels and takes on my energy/emotions/etc. I've seen proof of that. So I guess I need to focus on myself as much as him during this process... And that means taking care of these extensions and finishing this degree once and for all! That will be such a MASSIVE weight off of my shoulders.

We have a schedule that I will be sticking to with some flexibility in the afternoons. He will be out as much as he has been, but I need to cut the guilt and if he needs to go in or stay on the T-stand so I can do something or because I can't handle him, he will and we'll both survive.

I feel such a MASSIVE responsibility to him and I was losing sight of the big picture.

I've felt indescribable, awful emotions these last six weeks. My world has entirely changed. I worryworryworry, but he has also brought me joy since day one. I get so many glimpses of how he can be when his world feels ok. This is a major life test for me - to most people that would sound incredibly ridiculous, and those people are likely ones that have no idea what it means to put something else before their self and would 'give up' an animal. I can't do that. So I'm trucking on in hopes that in a few months this will REALLY start to turn around. But I lose sight of things so quickly. Just need to step back and take a breather. Every two seconds.

I'm home basically all the time with him, so it's a bit hard on the brain/soul/heart!

Annnnyways.......

Be back later/soon

(Was writing while you posted Pajarita, but this ends up applying perfectly as a response to you as well! Thanks as always.)

[Pajarita]

Oh, my dear, get used to the constant worrying! I am a chronic worrier when it comes to my birds - not so with children, dogs, cats, guinea pigs, mice, hamster, etc that might be under my care but definitely so with birds.

[mikella]

Why is that?! ...I went away once in the seven years I had my last bird and it was, I think, in the first year and I swear I would have an easier time leaving a child (I was living with my parents when I had him and my mother was home all the time so my bird was fine staying put). Children understand... How do you tell a bird "I'll be back, I promise" And I'm positive you either told me or I saw you say somewhere that you and your husband take separate vacations... I can understand that.

I have many moments when I think "oh my God... How did I forget about this attachment and how hard it is... I'm not ready for this..." Too late.

My mind can never separate from my special 'things' - my grandmother and my birds. NOTHING else is the same. And I worry about things that barely even exist, people I don't know, relatives of friends, things that didn't happen, etc..... This worry is a whole new breed of worry.

[Pajarita]

I worry about the birds more because children, dogs, cats, etc adapt to our schedules, it's easy to see symptoms if they are sick, and you can get commercially prepared food that is perfect for them but, with parrots, you have to worry about their getting a good diet (which means researching, planning, preparing, remembering to take out of the freezer, flavoring, etc) - then you have to worry about them not having any lights on before the sun is up or after the sun is halfway down (which, in the winter, it means that you cannot leave your house until 11 am or so and be back by 3 pm) - then you have to worry about them having enough hours of out-of-cage time and one-on-one (which, again, in the winter, means practically the entire frigging day if you cannot have them all out at the same time) and, to put the icing on the cake, you need to watch them like a hawk because they hide symptoms until they are very, very sick so that means observing each one once in the morning and once in the afternoon (energy level, poop, food intake, general appearance, etc).

[mikella]

I know the logistics, but it's an emotional thing I think - even if someone else cared for them perfectly. Can't really explain what I'm thinking.

So, things are moving along, same same. He is IN LOVE with my husband (but still has random aggressive moments, especially with his cage and the other day Quigley bit his lip when he fell asleep). But the same with me. Depends on the moment and his mood. No change with hands. I've been trying to keep my hands halfway out or fully out and just turned down while he's on my arm so that they're not in his full view. Usually what happens is he will go to the cuff of my hoodie and start getting rough, then it moves to my hand, he drags the point of his beak down my hand repeatedly then starts beaking then bites.

Some things have been crossing my mind - I wonder what would happen if I took the hoodie out of the equation. No cuff to get riled up about. (He is INTENT on fabric, especially since he's so hormonal, pulling at it, biting at it, scraping his beak on it, getting in/under it, etcetc. This is being reinforced since my husband lets him climb around inside his shirt whenever he's home. He LOVES this. It's his happy place.) He may just bite my arm AND hand, or it may be such a different situation without the fabric that he'd leave my arm and hand alone. Maybe wishful thinking, but just have been wondering. Not going to try it yet.

I wanted him to accept my hands before letting him crawl inside my hoodie - but now I'm wondering if maybe that would be an 'in' with him, letting him do something he really enjoys. So I may put on a couple layers underneath my hoodie, then let him go in my hoodie and see what happens. I could get SO much done because he loves it so much he just stays in and climbs around and chats and murmurs haha With my husband, he scrambles out to take a peek when he wants to see what's going on, either squeezing straight up with his legs splayed at the very top front of his shirt under his chin or he hangs upside down out of the bottom, then scrambles back in. It's so funny to watch this noise-making bundle moving around under his shirt. I'd figure out something though so that he couldn't get up to my face once he was in - so no skin contact so I wouldn't feel stressed.

Question: We have trees on our property that need to be limbed up - I think the only hard wood is birch. Is birch ok for Quigley? And can it be prepared somehow to make it safe in terms of possible pesticide residue/wild bird poop/whatever can't be seen but that's there? (Otherwise I obv wouldn't use it.)

[Pajarita]

Birch is safe and I only wash the branches from my backyard trees (I know there are no chemicals on them). I used to bake them to make sure any insects that might be in there are killed but I no longer do.

As to hoodie or no hoodie, it's up to you. I still think that he prefers your husband because he simply acted normally with him from day one, put up with his bites and kept on giving him the benefit of the doubt when he bit. And yes, they absolutely ADORE burrowing under your clothes. It was my allowing Boca, which was super bitey when he first came, to do this that, I think, gradually calmed him down.

[mikella]

Yes, I think you're right Pajarita...

He came up on my hand twice today without biting, but I had to redirect immediately after because that's when he starts biting if he doesn't do it from the get-go instead of coming up. I was happy about it. Maybe I'll try a couple times each day. Normally I just offer my arm.

Question - would someone provide me with a recipe for birdy bread? Or direct me to a good one?

[Pajarita]

I HIGHLY recommend getting a bread machine. I've been using one for my birdy bread for years and years and I could not be happier with it (actually, this is my second one). I use the whole wheat recipe they always bring in the little booklet that comes with them but only to have an idea of the ingredients proportions because, in reality, the birds don't care if it comes out too moist or too dry, they like it anyway.

I make a 2 lb one while you will make a 1 lb and freeze part of it (it freezes wonderfully they tell me -I use the whole thing on one single feeding but I've given away loaves to people with only one bird and they have frozen part of it).

I use:
2 cups of whole wheat flour
1/2 of coarse corn meal
1 cup steel-cut oats
1/2 of some other flour which varies, it could be rice, potato, spelt, etc
1 envelope of dry yeast
2 or 3 tablespoons of honey
fruit juice (mostly orange) or water enough for kneading (I start with 1/2 cup and turn it on for kneading while I look through the little window and just keep on adding liquid until I see it's of a good consistency)
grated carrots and zucchini and whatever other goodies you want to add like mashed sweet potatoes or pumpkin puree, fresh corn, nuts, dried fruits like figs, dates, raisins and anything else you can find that has been naturally dried and contains no preservatives. You can add a bit of cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice, cloves, ginger, etc for a 'fruity' bread or make it more with veggies than fruits and add stuff like oregano, pepper, chili powder, etc to make it 'spicy'. I make both but, in all honesty, I do much more 'fruity' than 'spicy' because I eat the fruity but not the spicy.

[mikella]

This is fantastic. Thank you Pajarita I actually do have a bread maker! Time to put it to use (I don't eat bread, but hubby will be happy haha).

Quigley absolutely LOVES thin crunchy stuff..... I was thinking I would make birdy bread, see how it turns out and if he'll eat it, then if not, bake slices to make it a bit crispy. I think I need a recipe that is pretty dense to be able to do this, but I'll see what happens and I can always adapt the recipe later. I will give this a go this week