Hello and Request for Help :)

[Wolf]

I don't know how long as that is an individual thing. I am certain that hormones are a factor to his current behavior and hopefully that part will start easing up soon.
However, the biting needs to be addressed and the sooner the better for both of you. I understand that his beak is also like another hand for him and he uses it to help especially with climbing, but he can do this without causing undue pain to you. Bringing some order into his life at this point will most likely help to stabilize him emotionally and give him some sense of security because he will begin to know what to expect and when to expect it to happen and this will give him some semblance of control over his own life as well.
to this end I would try to set up a semi flexible schedule for him. Such as wake up time breakfast time. time out of cage for exercise and interaction, nap time, play time in cage, play and interaction out of cage, dinner and bed times. You would need to adjust that to work with your schedules and what each time is can be changed to meet your needs as well as his, but it does provide him a framework that should help to ease his mind. As to the biting, I would watch his body language to see what his mood is and for a while you will need to watch closely as his mental and emotional state is subject to rapid changes especially with everything in a state of flux. Watch especially his eyes for pinning and how he holds his feathers, if they are tight against his body, he will probably bite so back of just a little and see if he will relax and then continue. Biting should be met with first a verbal calm but firm " No bite" or something similar, then with the verbal "no bite" and pushing his beak aside from where he is biting, then the most severe response is that of a verbal " no bite" and sitting him down on the nearest flat surface. He will not want to stay there so be prepare to move away from him a little. You only want him to understand that you don't want him to bite you and that if he bites you will put him down. This is not what he wants so he will begin to ease up a little. Let him come back in a couple of seconds to a minute after putting him down.
He is smart and likely to be a quick learner, so it should not take too long before you begin to see some results.

[cml]

EDIT: Both wolf and pajarita has posted new replies while I wrote this, so keep that in mind.

Mikella, welcome to the forum and thanks for adopting! You are doing great so far, its not easy keeping parrots so give yourself a pat on the back because you deserve it.

You have received some excellent advice from Wolf and Pajarita and I would listen to most of it. Long term I think everything they've written is great and would apply it, but short term I would go for a different approach.

I think the bird is being overloaded with a new environment, new diet, loss in his life and stress. This is not your fault, but I think you and him need to slow down. I would keep the diet as is for now, you will have many months and years to change it when he's accustomed to his new home. Also, pellets are not bad per se, but you need a good brand and it isnt supposed to be the only food but to be used with supplementary veggies and food. But again, I would wait with the transition.

Next, I would actually NOT let him out yet. I am sure Pajarita and Wolf will disagree here, but my firm belief is that you are causing more stress to him by having him out, where he is scared and aggressive. I would keep him in the cage for a week or so, while applying the things you've been told in this thread like talking to him, being close by and offering the occasional treat. Does he accept treats from your hand without biting?

If yes, then start target training in a few days when he's more accustomed to you. You can find more info about how to use this here: http://trainedparrot.com/Taming/
I think target training is a great asset for you and your bird, regardless of whether you want to train your bird further or not, because with this tool, you will be able to get your parrot to go where you want and have a tool to communicate with him through. With this, you will have your bird stepping onto the newly build T-perch in a matter of days. Please use this method, I promise you it will bring less stress to you and your bird! Oh, and by the way, for now, just place the T-perch somewhere close to the cage, where your bird can see it, to let him acclimatize to it.

Also, do read up more on Michael's blog, there is a lot of useful info there!

When you've got target training down, and you can get him to step up to the T-perch confidently, you will have a good way to get him out of the cage in a unstressful way, a way to transport him without biting and a way to distract aggression.

After that, you can move on and slooowly make changes towards what Wolf and Pajarita has suggested. Again, as I said previously I agree with them, but in their concern for parrots in need I think they take the long term perspective and not short term, which I think is what you need to deal with to start with.

[Wolf]

Very good post cml! You are right in that I am probably looking at it from a more long term perspective, as I do have that tendency. I am not in total agreement with either you or Pajarita but that is cool and to be expected. I think that our purpose here is to try to provide some insight into the birds behaviors as well as to suggest some possible ways to approach the situation with the birds owner making the call on how best to put the information from all of us to use in their situation. Thank you very much for your input. I know that I appreciate it.

[mikella]

Thank you ALL. Can't tell you how relieved I am that I'm here, figuring this out with your help.

I am going to write a longer reply later - need to re-read your posts. But for now, I will say...

- Yes, I was suspecting that it was too much change at once. I even mentioned that in a previous post. I am going to keep his pellets in there (while still offering fruits and goop) and go back to lights-on until he is covered. He is REALLY afraid as it gets dark, but then calm when in covered cage in complete dark. It's just that 'getting-dark' period - and I was doing that without lights the last two nights. I'll perhaps try the lights out before sun-down again in a week.

- It is SO HARD to not take him out when he is begging constantly to be out.... He lifts his little foot for "up up"... It's so sad. But I will have him in more. I've been in the bedroom with him for 1.5 hours just sitting working with the radio on low volume, and he has been quiet the whole time, he's grinding his beak right now. Feeling things out. Took a big bath in his water dish an hour ago and made a huge mess I think I've realized this is the thing to do right now... as much as possible. Sit in here with him. I'm worried again about having to leave tomorrow afternoon - I'll be gone for about 2 hours. I'm also worried that this may make his separation anxiety worse, when I start sitting in here for extended times each day. He only seems to feel remotely ok when we are in sight. And that is understandable. But will I make it worse if I stay in here a lot? Is there a "too much?"

- Yes, he takes treats from my fingers easily.

Few questions for now:
- He lunges and scrambles to bite/squeeze out of cage when I try to access his dishes. Any tips?
- When talking to him, how close can I be? I've been going right up to talk most of the time (unless I'm in another room or sitting somewhere obviously). Back off or is it ok to have my face/body close to cage? I've started putting my hands behind my back. Hands really really bother him but face is ok.
- He gets "cuddly" at night, even since he "turned." Still avoid closeness at this time?

I'll be back soon.

[Wolf]

How close you are to his cage depends on his response to your presence. If he is relaxed when you are closer, then remain closer. If he moves away or is agitated then back off until he relaxes. Many birds are hand shy for many different reasons, yet are not afraid of faces, so hiding your hands may be just the right thing to do.
All of the birds that I have were abused in varying degrees and my remaining close, answering calls from them when I could not be close and allowing them to come out of their cages at will was the right thing for them.
I would think that since GCC are known cuddle bugs and Velcro birds that separation may not be the way to respond, but being gone for a couple of hours at a time should not do any real damage even at this time.

[mikella]

I've been working in here with him (beside him I mean) for over three and a half hours. He is quiet and "comfortable," we 'danced' and mimicked sounds back and forth. As soon as I move a muscle, he perks up and gets agitated and chirps consistently. If I leave the room he squawks and squawks. This is what makes me feel bad about leaving the house... even if it's not for a long period of time. I wonder what he does and if he chirps... My husband even admitted that he had been looking into video/sound baby monitors that you can check from your cell phone, on day three... before the "change." haha That was when I knew he loved him. This 'new' aggression has been a real mind you-know-what. But we're not giving up.

I hope to heck I'm not always afraid of him and that we can fully work past this.

This is the longest time he's been in the cage in the last 9 days (at one time, not including nights obviously). And he is 'ok.' When I'm in here.

Wrote his old owner and will type up what she says when I hear back. This is the last reply I got from her the other day responding to questions, condensed version:

- during puberty, she would get "spontaneous, very rough" bites from him, also when trying to take him out of cage (which persisted ever since)
- recently, out of cage he was 'sweet,' sometimes random bites over the last year but not many
- only 'gentle bites' recently
- roughly would be covered between 10 pm and 8 am
- she would shout "No" when he bit and would blow in his face and put him in the cage

I noticed that she would "grab" him a fair amount (I don't mean that she was rough per se). Just an observation. She also mentioned that she would do that.

She took him to work once in a while bc she works in a pet store (didn't take him often at all tho, one of the days was the day we went to meet him there). He was 'sweet' that day too. Seems to me he seems 'sweet' when he is out of his element - like his first three days here. I noticed she would say a lot, 'he's being nice today' or 'he's been sweet lately' etc. As in, half the time he
behaved differently. (?)

Also should mention that she had a cat, so she kept him in one room for the last 1.5 years. Not sure how it worked when she was at her parents' house, if they had any other animals other than birds or what... But he has never been flighted. He has proven to me quite clearly tho that he is capable of at least trying! He is so EAGER to fly poor guy.

I feel the need to say that I don't think at all that she is a bad person or meant ANY harm at all. I don't doubt that she loved him at one time... but it faded. And the whole situation was far from ideal. She knew that.

Will still respond properly to each of you guys later.

Update with more answers from old owner:

- best budgie friend he was with from the time she brought him home, mate bonded, together 2.5-ish years until budgie passed away
- then came cockatiel for almost 2 years
- new budgie came very recently
- never bonded the same way that he did with the first budgie

- in the last 1.5 years, he was only out of the cage for 1-2 hours per WEEK (she moved to her own apartment and got a cat, Quigley was kept in one room in his cage)
- previous to that, he was out for several hours a day
- her sister cared for him for a month while she was travelling and said that he was extremely cage aggressive and mean, began warming up to her come the end of the month
- he was always nice to her dad and grandmother when she lived at home, but she was always there with them
- she said again that he was very bonded to her

I do wonder how much she knew that he would likely be an issue... I feel a bit taken advantage of in a way! But it's ok. I think she's keeping her distance a bit because she's afraid I will freak out and say "YOU NEED TO TAKE HIM BACK!!"... I have to admit, I was feeling incredibly hopeless and helpless and sad yesterday... lots and lots of tears. But I'm committed to this........ and he SOMEHOW (haha) has stolen a little piece of my heart.

I can see how parrots spend their lives being shifted from home to home... I think if most people got this guy, they would have wiped their hands of him on day 4. And it's not his fault...

I did have the 'fantasy' in my head of having a sweet, affectionate, fun bird who brought me joy and loved me to bits as well............................... I just hope that this will be ok in time. I waited and waited and waited and WORKED on my husband to let me have a 'buddy'................................... and this is my buddy. haha

I just need hope (for both of us).

[Wolf]

It is alright and this will work out just fine and you will indeed have a very sweet loving bird for a companion. whether the previous owner intended to or not her actions towards this bird were abusive based soley on the basic needs of this type of bird. I am not passing judgment on this person just stating a fact. And she was indeed less than honest with you about this birds state of mind and emotional stability. But that is water under the bridge so to speak.
In all likelihood this bird is only calling for you while you are in the house and it knows that you are there, but you could test this out by simply recording the sounds of the bird while you take a walk around the block. You do not need to go running to the bird when he calls for you, but I would answer him back. If you can whistle then pick out a simple easy to remember whistle and every time that he calls for you answer with the whistle, even if you have not yet left the room. In a short amount of time he will learn this whistle and probably begin using it to call for you instead of the nerve wracking call that he now uses.
It is quite common for many birds to be a little bit territorial about their cages and the simplest way to address this is to allow the bird to come out of the cage for cleaning and not to ask him to step up until he is out of the cage. All of my birds come out of their cage before I ask them to step up.
I am certain that if you use the information that you have been provided with that this will pass fairly soon and you will have a well behaved and loving bird to share your life with. It will be just fine I assure you.

[mikella]

Sooooooooooooooo, Quigley DOES say "I'm sorry." I'm not crazy. haha He said it 6 times earlier, very clearly. Wonder where that came from... I can picture his old owner saying "I'm sorry" to him when she didn't take him out or something like that

So far, I've heard "baby," "OK" (he's great at that one, loves it), "I'm sorry," "Quigley," "up up," and a bunch of babble that often sounds quite intentional haha I bet there's more he's saying that I'm not realizing yet. I think he will be a talker......... I was told that he didn't really talk, that he just said "up up" and his name. He also loves to mimic sounds back and forth. He makes little peck kissing sounds. And if he makes a certain "word-like" sound, and I repeat it, we'll go back and forth repeating. I think he seems like a smart little guy... smarter than people gave him credit for before, I think.

I am sensing a shift today. And I think it was the cage time yesterday that started it. I sat in here for four hours straight, working and talking to him. I'm back in here now. Got some stuff done this morning but was in and out constantly and always chatting to him. I really need to start getting stuff done... I totally put my life on hold for him and I'm paying for it now. But I DO feel better today, and even yesterday. I feel like he will be ok. And that makes me feel better.

Actually still did the sun-down thing last night. And uncovered before sun-up this morning, at 6:30. I am so sleep deprived - I've struggled with pretty severe insomnia for years anyways, but I'm literally DREAMING about birds now haha my mind and body are even more-so in overdrive now. I keep not wanting to mess up the uncovering thing, so I'll sleep on and off for a few hours then stay up so I don't miss the right time. This morning my husband actually uncovered him because I want him to be able to do it too (I have a little process, whispering, opening blinds first, etc). He was quiet from 6:30 until 7:10 then started calling so I came in. ANYWAYS - I think I will actually be able to keep the proper solar schedule going. The diet thing is what I will wait for to totally change. Still give him fruits and offer goop, but keep his pellets around. It seems to comfort him to sit and crumble those pellets (ugh haha).

Pajarita: I SO needed to hear everything you said. Thank you. I will try the T stick tonight with a treat. Could you suggest some treats to try? I gave him an almond piece one of the first days and he liked it, but offered him one this morning and he just dropped it. It wasn't in the shell, just normal one, and I cut it into long slices. The treat he LOVES are those nutri-berry things or whatever they're called.......... not ideal I know. But I break them up and just give him a piece most times. He has one or two a day total. He loves grapes and apple, but I need something without so much water and that is quick for him to eat for things like the T stick. As for the owner - yes... She sugar-coated things. I talked to her for about a month before I went to meet Quigley, asking every question under the sun that I could think of. I had been casually looking for a couple years for the right 'adoptee' to come along... and I felt this was right. There were warning signs that I missed. But I am glad now that I have him. He needed out of that situation. Will he always have a little bit of this in him? Does it get ingrained in them, this type of aggressive behaviour? I'm a bit of a sissy, and I hope that *I* will be able to fully trust him eventually. Because he deserves that. For the biting, what you said makes perfect sense, and my husband actually brought that up several days ago, saying that in the wild, the other bird would 'yelp' and snap back. I needed to hear that story you mentioned too haha I will react and see how it goes. I certainly reacted to the worst attack two days ago - I panicked. I think he was just as scared as me I will do my best to avoid that kind of biting.

Will be back to respond to others later.

Two questions in the meantime:
- when I come up to his cage and he stretches his neck up getting really tall and slightly fluffy and walks back and forth on his perch (3 or 4 steps one way, then turns and 3 or 4 the other way)... What "mood" is this?
- his beak never looked quite right to me from day one. It looks thin around the "biting" edges, you can see light through it when his beak is open. Thoughts? Slight peeling as well. And today, there is a bigger peeling chunk on the bottom, kind of bubbled like it will come off soon.

[Pajarita]

The 'pacing' behavior is anticipation (he wants to come out badly). They also do a hard head bob (up and down - up and down - up and down) which is either a greeting or, as in my GCC's case, a request to be picked up.

The beak chipping and peeling could be lack of vit A so try to feed one source of it every day (sweet potatoes, butternut, cantaloupe, carrots, kale -all dark leafy greens, actually). Do not feed any supplement with the final form (vitamin A), always feed food rich in the precursor (beta carotene). The reason for this is that, as nature meant for bodies to produce the final form (vitamin A) from the precursor found in food (beta-carotene), it did not give the body a mechanism to get rid of the excess (basically because there isn't supposed to be any) so, when you feed vitamin A in its final form (another problem with feeding pellets), if there is too much of it, it goes straight into the liver in a fat nodule and, over time, the accumulation of it causes fatty liver disease.

He won't 'react' to a high protein treat if he has high protein available to him 24/7 (pellets).

Now, I am all for switching to a new diet gradually (and that is ALWAYS my recommendation) but high protein causes aggression and that's why I always suggest to start the diet change asap for aggressive birds. This does not mean he should starve but, at least, just give him the pellets for dinner and not for all day eating.

[mikella]

I love hearing about your green cheeks. Any insight is SO appreciated. He does the head bob too. He also gets really low, skinny, long, tight wings, and shakes VERY OFTEN - almost looks like a baby bird. That is the one that makes me feel bad.... I've been taking it to mean that he wants me to hurry up and come near. Is that right? I really want to figure out his noises too... he makes a lot of different ones. The "retching" one I really want to know... does this ring a bell? It's a high-pitched retching, with his beak open and odd look on his face. It was what he did those times that I thought was some sort of mating behaviour (although it was much more intense before, with a bizarre posture). Then it occurred to me that maybe it's a call to his "bird friends" that he's missing... (?)

I'm going to pick up a bag of frozen mixed organic veggies and see what he likes out of that. With the goop, he just picks out the apple/grape and fliiiiings the grains. He liked cantaloupe, so I'll pick up another for the Vit A, and keep trying sweet potato (he ate a teeny bit of it the other day).

If he's hungry enough, will he eat the goop? He won't starve, right? As in, if I give him pellets tonight, take them out after dark, then give him goop in the morning and he doesn't eat it, will he be ok until tomorrow night? I don't want him to be uncomfortable. I could give him fruit... but then maybe he still wouldn't end up eating the goop if he knew he could just wait for other stuff. (?)

I'll make sure I get sweet corn. I bet he will like it. He likes to hollow out foods with skin (like grape).