Hello and Request for Help :)

[Pajarita]

If you want to try it, I would wait until I see he is very relaxed and allow it then - mostly as an experiment but also because, as you say, he has to start learning more control over his reactions and, for that, he needs to be exposed to the stimulus (hands, in this case). BUT you also need to remember that he is highly hormonal and that self-control is extremely difficult at this point in time -although not impossible- while, in another 3 months his hormone production would have ebbed significantly if not stopped altogether -which doesn't mean there will no sexual hormones whatsoever in his blood stream because they will take another couple of months to completely disappear.

[mikella]

Makes sense. I'll keep doing what I'm doing for now then and only let him approach hands when I really feel he's calm. I wish he would go right in my pocket so I could have my hands and arms free. He likes to half get in bc I load them up with stuff for him to pull out and fiddle with, but when empty he still only goes half in haha

[mikella]

Brief bc typing iPad one hand - if Q was in much better state endocrine system -wise, and breeding season can last until end July (correct?), would moult come July, AFTER in Aug., or when approx.? Purely curious for future yrs.

Also - startles incredibly easily and flops and flutters and mild crashes... Makes me worry a lot. Advice? Not much I can really do I don't think... (?) I worry he will get hurt. It must make him sore sometimes... (?)

And can hormones affect poop? I know for women it does (affect smooth muscle contraction/lack of, pull water in and out of intestines), so I thought perhaps can affect birds' as well. Also, gonads physically pressing on intestines/bowel/etc. perhaps causing inflammation, etcetc. I am still trying to get a feel for his poops, they still SEEM too watery to me, but they change according to what he eats, etc. I have a strong feeling it will seem much more 'right' to me after July - also as he adjusts to here/us/being out so much. His poor central nervous system would have been on overload since we picked him up............... incredible amount of nonstop stimuli.... He was used to being in cage... More to say but need two hands, taking forever haha

One more thing: Past two days tried this... Put cooked carrots in dish when uncovered, then simply added the grains when breakfast time. He has started to eat the cooked carrots, not entirely but little nibbles, even more today. If I put assorted veggies he just doesn't touch them other than corn. Should I try this, going one by one? I've been trying different things - different presentations etc., but he is simply not keen on any veg but corn, if it's in there. Purée has been a fail thus far, but will keep trying that too. Any ideas? Also, chews liquid out of everything (apple, grape, corn, etc.) and leaves mush - normal?

I find if I give him anything raw in dish, he doesn't touch it, or will just pick up and drop on floor. (I've tried the one at a time thing with multiple things, but I'm wondering if the key is everything cooked for now, then can decrease the amount it is cooked slowly, and keeping that one until he starts eating it.) Cooked carrots and corn are the only successes thus far (and corn much moreso than carrot... And he's even backing off on the corn it seems bc he just takes one little nibble and drops it). Sometimes he will chew TEEEEEEENIE pieces of pepper given to him on a spoon, and fling the mush. I will keep doing that too. If in dish, won't eat it. Tried cutting diff ways, etcetc. Fruits are fairly ok - but not veg. Just looking for thoughts/ideas how to approach this. What do you think of the one at a time in dish thing? (along with the others being tried out of cage during day)

Last question - shelf life on things like dried mung beans/lentils? (As in, in package not cooked)

[Wolf]

If the places that he crashes at are in just certain locations you can try padding these crash sites. It is hard to do that if these places are all random but if any of them are sites of multiple crashes you can try to pad them. He wants to fly and knows that he should be able to and so he is going to try.
Gloop, you should put both the cooked carrot and corn in with the whole grains and then when he is eating both of these vegetables pretty well in with the grains you add one more vegetable such as peas. Don't do carrots and then corn, do carrots and corn.
Fresh raw fruits and vegetables, These are always the hardest to get them to eat and the most beneficial for them. You will normally have to try every conceivable way of presenting them to the bird, picky little things that they are, from whole to sliced and diced in all sorts of shapes and sizes to grated in xtra coarse to super fine. But the thing that I find to be the most helpful is to make two dishes of these items one for me and one to give them some out of. Theirs may have carrots and peas chopped in a variety of ways including mashed, mine are how I want them. Sit down in front of the birds cag and start talking to the bird and nibbleing on my vegetables at the same time. The best time is in the morning just before they eat breakfast. Any way the bird will start to get curious about what you are eating, which you conveniently overlook. In a short while longer the bird will start asking for some, ignore this as well and keep munching and talking to the bird. Next the bird will start begging for some and then it will start demanding some and this is why I do this with the bird in the cage, it doesn't allow him to steal the food until I want to give it. When the bird begins to demand the food then I reach into its dish and offer the bird a piece of it. This is almost always good to get them to at least bite the food. I don't do this every morning, I always allow a day or two between doing this, no real reason, just me.
The reason for this and why it works is first of all the sessions don't last long and the bird is at its hungriest just before breakfast and because for a parrot eating and the sharing of food with flock mates is both a social and a bonding activity.
My CAG, Kookooloo, likes strawberries, this is a new food for her to eat and took almost a year before she would even try one bite. I only give her strawberries when in her cage, not because I want her caged but for the simple reason that she mashes the strawberry and sucks up the juice throwing little bites of strawberry everywhere. Such a slop, no table manners at all. So I consider this to be normal if undesirable behavior for them.
Dried beans and lentils as long as I don't see any discoloration or anything trying to grow on them, I use them as they keep half of forever. When I was in the Marine Corps and pulling KP duties I used beans and other dried goods regularly that dated back to WW Two and the Korean Conflict.

[Pajarita]

Yes, Wolf is right, put both corn and carrot and, when he is eating both, add peas or chopped broccoli or chopped green beans, etc (I would start with baby peas as everybirdy seems to prefer them to the regular ones). Same on the raw, don't worry, it takes a loooooong time and it's just a matter of insistence and persistence. Ditto on the crashing, just be as careful as you can but it's a real good thing that he keeps on trying.

Their poop does vary with the food and the time of the year (moister in the am).

Normally, breeding season is over in late June and molt starts after but not immediately (it has gotten earlier in the past few years, it used to be late July and beginning of August).

[mikella]

Wolf - yes! What a mess Quigley makes for a little thing! Since my birds before were smaller, the mess was pretty small. I spend allllllll day wiping up poops off the floor, cleaning surfaces where he's flung food, mopping the floor after he's been in his cage and decided to take a bath (if I don't give him one in the sink on a T-perch he pretty much is guaranteed to do it in his cage which means a total clean of his cage and surrounding walls/floor/surfaces) hahaha ... Messsssssss!! I seem to have better luck having him try things when he's out of his cage but I can totally understand why you feed certain things in there! There's so much clean up! haha

I do try eating with him, and it does get him interested. He will pretty much always at least pick up a piece of food if offered to him on a spoon, even if it's just to drop it. But I think that's a positive thing - at least he will touch it. Some things he will drop drop drop then decide to nibble a teenie bit... That's the goal. But ultimate goal is for him to JUST EAT IT haha I'd rather him pick around on a plate of food - but he isn't interested unless it's apple or grape or corn if he's really hungry.

When the stuff he's eating now is going really well I'm going to do what you mentioned - before his breakfast I'll sit with him and eat the peas until he tries. May have better luck with new things at that time. What's funny is he WAS trying the peas initially.... Then he stopped. And once in a while when I gave him one he would eat it to show off - it's hilarious when he does it. He struts all fancy and does his noodle neck and MUNCHMUNCHMUNCH like he can't eat that pea fast enough. Then he snaps out of it and won't touch any more hahaha

In regards to crashing - it is ALL over the place. There are two places where I will arrange something though.

It's not so much that he's flying because he wants to fly - (even though he VERY CLEARLY does want to, but he has a lot of anxiety surrounding it bc he knows he can't properly) - it's that he flies when he is startled (which happens numerous times each day). I want to help lessen the anxiety though, and I do think he's feeling a tiiiiiiiiiny bit more confident that he can flutter and be ok.

[mikella]

Quigley's obsession with my husband is increasing every day. He was home a lot this weekend and Quigley wanted nothing to do with me, only wanted to be on him 24/7, doesn't want him to be out of his sight, etcetc. Calls and calls and calls and gets incredibly worked up if he can't be on him or at least see him. The more my husband is around, it seems the more Quigley is nasty with me, too. This is so devastating. Not that he loves my husband, but that he's so against me. There are times when I think he's trying to like me (and times I think he does like me, and I'm sure in some way he does), but then seconds later I take back that thought.

When I am home alone with him, he will have some quiet time in his cage, but when my husband is around he won't settle. When it's just me and him, he DOES want me and wants to be on me, etc., but at the same time, is still nasty to me and will turn on me in a split second.

I can't understand why he still feels the need to be nasty to me. I don't have to be his favourite, but I can't make sense of the fact that he does seem to like me (here and there) and even want to be on me (even for a minute at a time when husband is around), but will bite bite bite, lunge, etc. at random. And my HANDS. Big issue. My hands SHOULDN'T be threatening at all................

I'm just having such a hard time understanding. I thought we were doing a little better, then with my husband around more the past few days it's seemed worse.

In the future, when we do adopt a pal for Quigley, will this stop? The obsession with husband? I just want things to even out. As much as I love him, it's flat-out exhausting dealing with him every day when he is aggressive with me, and now the husband thing is really becoming a problem (for my husband as well) and making MY problem with him even bigger.

Is it that Quigley sees my husband as his mate? What am I? Someone that is just in the way of his relationship with my husband that he is forced to be with? (May sound humorous, but serious question.) I'm thinking this is more than just a "favourite person" thing. (?) I thinking that he does indeed see husband as his mate and he only trusts, accepts, and has a close relationship with his mate - I'm not his mate, so there is no reason for him to need to or want to trust/accept/want/be close with me. Why why why do you think my hands enrage him yet my husband's are just fine? I'm getting the sense that hands, to Quigley, are a huge deal... super intimate to him, sacred, reserved for special close mate-like relationships and no others.

?

Say he sees husband as his mate - How may things be once his hormones die down?
Say he simply sees husband as favourite person - How may things be once his hormones die down?

I'm trying SO HARD to stay in the present and take it minute by minute (literally what I have to do) and not think too far ahead, but it's SO HARD not to. He's taken over our life and not all in a good way.....

He wants to be out and on us (me, if it's only me home) basically all the time and has a FIT if he isn't...... but he is aggressive with me and I really can't trust him.

If his relationship with me stays like this, we have a real problem. (We already do have a real problem and have from the beginning, but if it can be sorted out, that's ok... my concern is that there will always be this massive struggle.)

Things keep evolving and I'm so stumped again. Actually, I was always stumped, but increasingly so now as his relationship with husband deepens and his relationship with me regresses. Even when we are all together, he will call for me if I leave the room (nothing in comparison to how he gets with my husband, mind you) - so I am part of his world, but he is so conflicted about how to deal with me. He doesn't mind having me around, he doesn't care all that much at ALL if I'm there when my husband is around, he wants to be on me if I'm the only one home with him, yet at the same time, he wants to attack me.

I so badly want to trust him and I can't.

I feel like we're at a standstill now as the obsession grows. I don't know how to manage this whole situation as it evolves.

[Harpmaker]

It sounds to me like Quigley sees you as a flock member, and hubby as a mate. If the mate isn't around, he looks for the rest of the flock for safety in numbers. If hubby IS around, Quigley doesn't want to share him with other flock members. Cold comfort perhaps, but you are MUCH closer than a stranger.

[Wolf]

There are basically two types of bonding that we see with birds and this is the parent/ child bond which ends at puberty and then the mate bond in which the bird bonds to its special person, this bond may last a lifetime. There is also the bonding with the flock, but this is often downplayed and overlooked as it is not the relationship that we humans are looking to share with the bird.
Quigley is mate bonded with your husband and because he is hormonal the normal level of his protecting his mate from undesired advances is very much heightened. In their natural environment birds that are mated defend each other from other birds advances and they spend all or nearly all of their time with each other. The male will not all the advances of another male bird and the female will not allow her mate to make advances towards another female. They both defend and protect each other from any rival or intruder.
You are basically a flock mate, for lack of a better way to call it and Quigley wants you around in the same way that he wants his flock around him when your husband is present, but he see you as a rival for his mates( your husband) attention and will defend against this. When your husband is not present he wants to spend time with you but still knows that you are not mate bonded with him and so he still defends against what he considers to be inappropriate advances from you.
This is the best that I know how to describe what you are telling me. Although it is intensified by hormones it is normal behavior for this species of parrot and just as importantly for most species of parrots.

[mikella]

Yes, this makes sense to me. Thanks for the info. It's exactly what I was thinking.

Sooo...... what does this mean...? What I was saying at the very beginning when Quigley first started to warm up to my husband (and not me) - I don't want him to have a miserable life being stuck with me 90% of the time......... I'm the one home all the time. Not my husband.

How can this be remedied, if at all?
Anything I should change or should/shouldn't do? Or anything my husband should/shouldn't do?
How might another bird change the dynamic? Will the issue stay the same UNLESS Quigley happens to mate bond with the new bird? (this said - we won't be adopting another for quite a while)

This is a problem. It's been a massive problem from the beginning. My hope is dwindling again.

So, if I'm a flock member - and he wants to be on me - why does he attack? I'm not making advances - I'm merely letting him on me because he begs to be on me.

Also - is there ANY chance that the sole reason Quigley now sees my husband as his mate because he started letting him go in his shirt (not recently, he's been doing this for quite a while now)? Sounds silly, but Q has been SO ridiculously hormonal and nesty etc. that crawling around inside his shirt is like HEAVEN to him.

There is just absolutely no way I can live like this for the rest of Quigley's life..... I have no life even within my own house, and I'm miserable. I HAVE to take care of him and have him out, but I'm on guard every second, can't do anything with him on me, and he bites all the time. But I can't just leave him in because then he's obviously miserable and has an absolute FIT - and I could never feel ok about that.

I love him, but I can't help but feel like I made a massive, massive mistake taking him in... even though I know his conditions were awful and he deserves the best home possible (but is the best home possible here, where he's forced to be with me all the time, pining for someone who isn't there?!). I feel doomed. I'm not joking. This past two months have been one giant MELT DOWN.

I know it's instinct working, but is there any way to stop Quigley from seeing my husband as his mate so we can all just be 'flock members?' And maybe then the aggression would decrease? Should my husband NOT be letting Quigley inside his clothes, etc.? Should I not be the one cleaning his cage/room/etc. as it probably annoys him? I'm assuming this bond won't budge now... but what about adding another bird?

I KNOW I have to wait until hormones die down - but this just isn't looking good. I am praying for a big turn-around in a month or two... but I think that may kind of be wishful thinking.

I don't feel as if this is fair to Quigley - I don't want him mate bonded with a human, I want him mate bonded with a bird that he can be with 24/7 how things were meant to be. Even IF Quigley had chosen me and we were together 80% of the time, we would still have these problems (just the other way around). (Sure, it would be great in ways and I'd feel "special" and eat up all Quigley's love - but still not fair, plus downfalls.)