Hello and Request for Help :)

[liz]

Myrtle throws a tantrum about every two weeks so I know that birds can do it.
Right now I am in NC and left my son to care for my critters in FL. Myrtle is being a spoiled brat to the point that my son is giving her 10 minute time outs. They don't have their cage down there and it doesn't even have a door so he has been closing her in my bedroom.
Myrtle loved my son at first sight but she is giving him a rough time without me.
Twice in 4 years she would not get off me and go to her bed. I had no way of knowing what was wrong so she slept with me. Why was she okay the night before and the night after.
Last week Rambo would not go to bed. After trying to put him to bed I finally gave up and slept in the recliner with him. He was fine the next night.
I wish I could read their little minds because they are sure messing with mine.

[mikella]

I'm a mess over this. It has become so clear to me what has developed. Quigley is so resistant to 'let me in'.... I think part of the problem is simply that I'm dealing with an upset bird who simply wants his other half, and I'm not that.... So he yearns for contact but everything is a reminder that I am not his bestie and that fact simply hurts and irritates him. He doesn't want me, he wants my husband. He constantly does what I call his sad hormonal little chirp and calls and gets all skinny like he wants to take off for the front and patio door as if my husband is there, incredibly tuned in to any tiny noises in the house or outside and immediately starts calling... These are things that have been going on for a while, sometimes really intense days, sometimes it would be a bit decreased... I suspected that's what was going on, but now I'm entirely sure. It breaks my heart. I blame myself for not being brave enough in the beginning - I thought having my husband have him on him more and deal with the bites would just give him time to settle down, then he would be ok with me. My husband was covering up initially, but then just started to stop and I was there to watch Quigley's behaviour on his shoulder and divert bites. I had him on me, definitely, but I was covered up because husband wasn't home, and when my husband was home, I would let him have Quigley so that Quigley could have more what I would call 'quality' time, being allowed to do whatever while I 'monitored.' Quigley's biting had started to decrease but was still happening with husband. Then he slowly accepted his hands. I was careful and covered with Quigley because the biting persisted, my hands enraged him, and I was alone with him. He was on me a lot, but there always felt like there was a barrier between our contact, because in most ways there was. A hoodie and covered hands. And there WAS a time where I had a LOT of anxiety surrounding having him on me because he was so unpredictable, etc. I feel like I partially caused this. In my defence, I was going by advice here to cover up and not give bites a chance to happen... And I don't necessarily think that was the wrong thing, but somewhere along the line, he let my husband in and not me, perhaps because I didn't give him enough of the chance he needed, maybe because he felt my anxiety (of course he did), maybe because he had more fun with my husband, maybe because I'm a reminder of his old owner... And I had wondered about that. I do kind of doubt it, but you never know. We're both young, petite, at first meeting you may really think we have a similar personality type... I thought this is maybe a stretch, but who knows. I'm sure it could be a whole puzzle of factors that lead to the situation. And it's not worth ruminating about, but I feel so unbearably guilty and regretful. I really don't even want to discuss all this any further. *Actually I want to clarify - he may have bonded with husband regardless, but perhaps if things went differently, he may have also accepted me around the same time. Now it feels like damage control.

What I need is for Quigley to accept me and not resent me, for him to be able to enjoy our days together rather than feel miserable that husband isn't there and that I'm simply not husband. If Quigley ALWAYS continues to pine for husband the way he does, it's not fair to Quigley.

Quigley is a sweet, special boy. And it makes me cry writing about this. The thought of 1. not being able to love him and have him in our family and 2. making him go through A SECOND traumatic loss and move is almost unbearable. He deserves to be the the most adored, content little thing. He is a joy when he loves you. I just wish he would be able to let me in. If he always resents me and is miserable not having husband here, this cannot work.

I'm going to continue to go minute by minute and try to hold on to my sanity and keep my heart intact. I'm going to improve his cage and room and make every effort to take care of him the best I can. See how he is with me in 6 weeks or so. I feel like I'm at a standstill with him. I felt there had been some improvement, as in, him leaving my hands alone a bit when they were in sight. Then we backtracked a lot after husband was around a lot on the long weekend. He's lunging at me again today.

If/when we adopted another conure - would the mate bond with husband persist?

(Today I'm having my hands out more again - yesterday I couldn't, he was too angry. I've been letting him inside my hoodie but on top of my zip-up, which he likes... not the same as fully being able to climb around inside t-shirt with his back against skin, like with hubby... not as much fun, he just pokes his head in down by my waist and will sometimes hang in there for a couple mins rummaging around. He's been dragging his beak on my hand when he feels like it.... he starts by getting really rough with the cuff of my hoodie sleeve, then starts dragging his beak hard against my skin, then he nibbles, nibbles harder.... I've been very lenient. This last time, however, was a full bite, so I put him down. He is SO testy and irritable with me. He chirps loud and lunges at my face. He just gets so "pissy." Yet when hubby is around, he's a happy bird and less nasty with me because he's preoccupied with being happy! As long as he gets his way. Last night he was biting hubby a little bit when we were both on the bed and Quigley kept wanting to be on me. He was sitting on my leg, and when hubby would put his finger or hand to take him back, he would nip. Interesting. Wish I knew, like Liz said, what goes on in his mind.)

What's interesting:

When hubby is around a lot, once hubby leaves (goes back to work after a couple days), Quigley has a complete hate on for me.
When I really think about it, when hubby is around, sometimes Quigley is in a much more pleasant mood with me when he is with me (for small amounts of time bc he is SO preoccupied with being on hubby). OR, sometimes he is just as pissy. Changes all the time.

I keep thinking about this one night..... when Quigley was really starting to accept my husband's hands, and it was evening before sundown, but it was just starting to get a bit later... and Quigley was accepting my hands, and it made me so happy. We were all sitting on the bed and he was just having a good time doing whatever and interacting with us and our hands. I thought wow, this is a turning point. Then a couple evenings later (or maybe it was even the next evening, can't remember, but it was very soon after), he had kept being the same with hubby, and I came in for a break from my work and sat on the bed with them and noooooooooope, things weren't the same as the other night. I was a "no."

I bounce back and forth between having hope and having no hope. But Quigley is such a precious little guy. I really, really have a lot of love for him. I HOPE that this will pay off.

Pajarita, Wolf - in your opinions - Do you think there is a good chance Quigley would bite my face neck? Or perhaps it would give him freedom and make him feel more content/comfortable/more of a connection with me if I allowed him there? I don't put my hood up anymore and he is generally good about staying on my arm or going back to it. But before this long weekend that set us back, he had been really wanting to go up to my shoulder... I would let him sit there very briefly. I WANT to trust him. But I really don't want to let him bite me more than he already does. He is struggling with me, so clearly. The bites he gives me are strong bites, but I haven't had the type in a while that takes a gouge of skin out and bleeds. Just strong bites that welt up/bruise/you can see his whole beak imprint (bugger). I think he's too nasty right now, but if we can get back to where we were when he wasn't lunging...?

As soon as he bites, he clings on so hard and does these "sorry" little chirps bc he doesn't want to go on the t-stick...... THEN DON'T BITE. ugh. Makes me feel bad, but... he's a smart boy... Maybe in a month he'll have better control without the raging hormones. I sure hope so. He knows he's not supposed to bite. He may not understand he shouldn't be rough - but I really believe he knows bites are not ok......

uuuugh, what do I know........

He's being a little monster again today. I am trying SO HARD to hold on to my patience...... Nothing new, but he begs to be on me, he's on me, he's nasty and mean and bites repeatedly. I wish he would give me a break. He won't be in his cage without calling and making noises like he's dying..... I NEED to finish this incredibly overdue paper today, I NEED to study for that last exam that I postponed that's on Friday, I NEED to write three papers I have extensions on... then my degree is done. I get so few good working days due to health issues that my time is so precious. What a struggle.

I know I need to start leaving the house to get work done. There's no way around it unfortunately... even for a couple hours a day. I feel guilty leaving him, but at the same time, he's killing me, and it's not like he enjoys my company anyways....

argh.

(Just had to blab all that, be totally honest, and get it out.)

[mikella]

Just want to say, I add things SO many times to my posts that I wonder how much is missed when you guys are writing a reply and I'm still 'editing' my post, writing away!

[Pajarita]

Mikella, I think you need to stop trying to figure everything out day by day and allow time to do its work. Six weeks is nothing to a parrot and six weeks when they are overly hormonal and in the middle of the breeding season count as a couple of days. Sometimes, in situations like this one, the best thing to do is just plod along, take it one day at a time, avoid second guessing and simply wait while you keep on trying. Parrots hardly ever show significant behavior improvement from one week to the next. It's always a gradual, slow thing when one day, you notice a little something, then it's not there for another week, then it happens again, then it doesn't for another week but, the following time it does, there is only five days in between and so on and so forth until it happens all the time. He has gotten better and that's a HUGE thing taking into consideration his history and physical condition and the season so it's not as if there was no hope. There is never such a situation. Right now, I have Sweetpea on my shoulder talking to me and making a general pest of himself because he wants my attention and this is the same bird I used to refer to as 'the Senegal from hell' and which took 5 years (FIVE!!!!) to become my friend.

This doesn't mean you should not post or anything like that. It's not that we mind reading about your troubles and thoughts and giving you our opinion or a pointer here and there, it's that you are torturing yourself with thoughts that are not really going to help you or the bird. Give yourself a break and a pat in the back, you've done and are doing great and he has a life 500 times better than what he had... and it will get much, much better - both for him and for you. And, if after 6 or 8 months have gone by and there is still room for improvement and this means getting him a mate, then it's just a matter of considering it.

[mikella]

Completely agree. When I was saying six weeks (we've had him for nine) I just meant six weeks or so from now once his hormones start decreasing. You may have understood that anyways. I just know that hormones definitely must be making him uncomfortable and agitated in every way, and I hope that when they decrease me and him will have an easier time.

**My big problem is just managing him and myself day to day. It is HARD. If he's not on me, he's having a colossal FIT, if he's on me, he's aggressive. It's enough to make anyone go nuts.

And it's just me and him here all day every day.**

So I still haven't been able to manage things. At this point, he won't even go in for a rest. That was my only sanity time. He had been 'ok' about it before, he would give me an hour or so mid or late morning and maybe once early afternoon.

Is it ok to leave him when he's losing his mind in his cage (his door is always open)? I just have such a hard time with that. He does NOT stop. You can't just wait it out. He will do it until you go get him. It also makes me lose my marbles not being able to escape from the noise (and when I say noise, I mean the MEANING of the noise - if he was constantly happily, loudly chirping that's a different story... it's that he is in such distress that I can't bear it).

[Wolf]

You already know why he is screaming and you can always verify that by a quick peek and as long as it is just because he is calling for someone answer him but quit running to him as you are making it worse and training him to scream.

[mikella]

I always answer (now periodically throughout a fit, not constantly, because it seems to make it worse), but I (and we) will try leaving him more.

I don't always run to him - he has done this nonstop for an hour or two hours when I physically couldn't have him on me (whether sick - migraine) or when I'm getting ready to go somewhere. He has never stopped unless I went to get him or I left the house.

If I know it will help him calm down in the long run, I will leave him. Because there ARE many times when I just go get him a couple minutes in.

He is out a LOT of the time, and I want him to feel secure enough to be in his cage as well.

[Pajarita]

Have you put branches, perches, chewie toys, etc on the outside of his cage so he can climb up and down, etc? Maybe tie a shoe box with a round hole on one side so he can go in and out to one of these perches or branches? A tunnel? Part of the problem is the fact that he cannot fly and that will also improve after molt...

But, yes, by all means, do take a break from him and if that means that he is going to scream for you for a few minutes, so be it. Caregivers also need a break.

[mikella]

Some things outside, but I need to improve it (as well as improve inside his cage). He has pretty much zero interest in most anything, so I need to change it up and try new things... It was actually planned to be our 'project' this weekend. I'm going to try the tunnel and shoebox on top of his cage. He won't even sit on top of his cage, he just goes in. We'll fix it up and see how he does.

He's surrounded all day by things to fiddle with and chew and shred and go in and out of etc., and he just has no use for anything. Other than pulling stuff out of my pocket (which he has been "over" the last few days) and peeking into holes. haha

[mikella]

I feel the need to announce that Quigley is in my shirt. He snuck up a few mins ago and I couldn't handle the nips/talons.... Plus I feared for the lives of my nipples. So tucked in my t-shirt and zip-up underneath my hoodie and now he's having a jolly time inside my hoodie. The nips still hurt like HELL through the fabric but he is having fuuuuuuuuun and it makes me so freaking HAPPY!

My husband gets the same nips when he does this. He just pinches around and it gets quite hard. Not aggressive nips in my thinking. But hopefully after he's less driven by hormones we can teach him to be more gentle.

He learned to poke and nibble holes in hubby's t-shirt. Now that he realized he can do it he's a hole machine. It's hilarious.

I wonder if this new pastime will help me steal a teensie bit of Quigley's heart. I hope so. THEN I think hands will begin to seem maybe ok....... We'll see.

But anyways, happy. Very happy.


Also - getting bigger cage. Happy about that too. Keeping the one he has now as well.