Hello and Request for Help :)

[Pajarita]

I don't agree with the common and often repeated opinion that birds get overgrown beaks from not having things to chew. In my personal experience, this never, ever, ever happens. It's always either liver malfunction or a deformation (if the top beak doesn't align as it should with the bottom beak, either one or both don't 'wear out' properly and grow too much). But, I went back and looked at the videos and, although it's dark and not very clear, it doesn't look as if he has an overgrown beak to me. Peely, ragged edges, etc are from a bad diet and all of these problems will disappear in time (but don't get impatient because it will take close to two years).

Nails and how short or long they should be are more a matter of personal preference. I hardly ever trim any nails. I do it to the canaries and to the two liver damaged parrots once a year and, on occasion, to the cockatoo because his nails are like large and sharp as daggers and he has this habit of grabbing my face with his foot (it's his way of 'hugging' me) while we do the 'pa pa pa' he loves so much.

[mikella]

Thanks, both of you, for the info. I want to post pics but I can't seem to get the files small enough ugh

I feel a little defeated today. Quigley was really wound up when I was getting ready to leave... He's such a smart little guy. He was noooot happy. I hated to have to leave him when he was like that. And hormonal behaviour is ramping up a LOT. I just got the sense that he is "off" today, my husband got home from work before I came back and he said the same thing.

His poops are majorly watery. And he looks scruffy, more pins in his head and neck.

I'm struggling with having him out of the cage. He is chomping through my two-three layers of clothes CONSTANTLY and it hurts... I don't know how to manage this. I really need advice. If I say "ouch!" or "no bite," it almost seems like it annoys him and he *immediately* does it again harder. He's like a biting machine. He sometimes lasts a little longer on husband before going into bite mode.



I think I need to have him out more to work through things (more than 'walks' around the house and on the kitchen counter or floor for a few minutes several times a day)... But it is really stressful to have him on me. If he can get to me, he is quickly chomping through clothes. I *do not* know how to manage this. He wants to be on me every second too... And I want him to be able to be.

Also, am I still supposed to keep the gloop in all day until supper? And how much gloop should I be putting in his dish?

[liz]

I did not read the whole thread but if your bird can fly just gently shove him off. Myrtle preens me and picks at me when I am too busy to play with her. It can go on for an hour or so before I have to shove her off. She will come right back but only hangs on me and not pick.

[mikella]

No, he's been clipped his whole life and was just clipped again right before I adopted him... If I tried to shove him off I'd probably need stitches. Ugh.

[Wolf]

I agree that he needs to be out a lot more, he needs more mental stimulation and exercise. The biggest problem with this is that the only form of movement that actually qualifies as exercise for a bird is flight. And it is the only exercise capable of reducing the level of hormones in his system.
Can you get him to chase a small stuffed toy ball or plastic ball or anything of that nature. It would probably help if you can find a toy that he loves to attack and kill. Other than these your best bet is distraction to save your hide until this passes.
As I have said previously I had to endure Kiki's bites for nearly a year before we got her system straightened out and then she bonded to me. Her bites were the removal of 1/4 inch gouges of flesh from me with each bite, it was all out kill it biting. I have not had to endure this type of biting from any other bird and I have two birds that are much larger than she is. I do understand what you are going through.

[mikella]

I have little cat ball toys for him that he sometimes will pick up and drop but certainly won't chase them, I keep trying but he doesn't care for them as of now... Sometimes I let him go on the floor and waddle after me down the hall with me ahead of him crawling (but facing him), he always follows. Would this be a way of getting out a little energy for now? I could do that each time he's out a couple times or more. And sometimes I would encourage him to flutter from a surface into my hands, it takes him REALLY wanting to be on me and willing to flap, and I keep my covered hands about ten inches away and catch him. Is this good to do? I wasn't sure at the time.

I think I need to start really reading up on target training and start that ASAP.

It's hard to know what to do when it's so tough to have him on me, yet he WANTS to be on me so badly, he won't chew or fiddle with any items or toys either at all or for more than 3 seconds at a time, and he can't fly.

I hope it doesn't take a year for the biting to stop like in your experience! But if it does, it does. I just need to figure out a way to muddle through and that's what is my problem right now. Some days are a little easier to have him out and some days are really difficult. I WANT him out though and he desperately wants to be, so I just need to figure out a way/things to help.

It's easier when both me and my husband are here bc one person can have him on them and one person can watch and redirect behaviour. But that longer time out of the cage isn't until around supper time some days (or late afternoon others). Earlier in the day I take him out multiple times (maybe 3 to 5) for short periods of time, 10-30 minutes at a time I'd say.

[Wolf]

I think that the longer times with both of you are very good for him, but I also think the shorter times with just you are just as good for him. I think that these time will help him to figure out that he is safe and that you do not intend to hurt him. These times out should help him mentally but they do not provide the amount of exercise that is required to reduce the level of hormones in his bloodstream. I really wish I could help on this more than I have been able to , but sometimes the only thing that we can do is wait the bad behavior out.
When I mentioned to you earlier about the grooming perches and the natural perches, it appears that Pajarita thinks that I was saying that not having them was the reason for the beak to be overgrown, if it is. But that is not what I said nor is it what I meant. It is a matter of simple physics that since the sides of the grooming perches are like sandpaper due to the embedded sand, so when the bird uses them to clean his beak on they will help in removing the food but in the process they do in fact sand the beak a little a manicure or like keeping a knife sharp. you can't hone a knife without removing some of the metal and the same holds true for a beak or toenail. As for the reason for any overgrowth I must agree with her as to the cause of the overgrowth.

[mikella]

Soooo I told myself after breakfast I would have him out from 9-10 am. Within the first 5 minutes he got me GOOD right on my thumb. It's already swollen.

So, I'm having a cry.

He really gets a death grip with his beak, and if I break it, he chomps down again immediately right beside it, which was what happened. Several bites with the first one being the worst. I freeze at the initial moment because it's shocking, then I say "no! No bite!" - it seems to have zero meaning to him at this point, which I can understand but it's unsettling and frustrating.

I don't want to say "no bite" in these instances, I want to just react to the pain and say "ouch!!!" but I freeze in that moment, it's scary... Even though it's not like he's going to kill me! Just try to

He's just been sitting on the other counter watching me pretty quietly.

Here we go again.

(This didn't get posted right away bc I blew my nose and startled him and he fluttered to floor. I got him to walk a lot and flutter behind me on floor...)

About the beak - we joke when he's quiet in his cage that he's busy sharpening his beak haha

[Wolf]

I don't hide it if my birds bite and cause me pain. I have no qualms with yelling ouch and then a pained "No Bite". It would not be natural otherwise.
These bird are naturally fairly non aggressive and for them biting is a last resort. Since they are imprinted on us and bond to us and they understand that they need us, biting us without reason is of no advantage to them. However, I would guess that this bird has learned that it is the only way to respond to a human as he appears to have learned that they do not listen to him at all otherwise and although he needs them they are not trustworthy. It appears to me that this is the obstacle that must be overcome and that takes more than a little patience, blood and time. Be patient, persistent, loving and although it will be a hard won battle ,when you finally break through and he gives his trust it will prove to be well worth it.

[mikella]

I don't intend to hide the pain, it's just a natural reaction for me to be in 'shock' and it takes me a second to react (I've always been this way). So it's going to have to be something I consciously work on, reacting immediately with "ouch!" then "no bite!"... I either skip the ouch part or it takes me a second or two to say it.

Yes, I think you are exactly right - he learned to use it as a way to get people to listen to him, he knows it's predictable. I'm sure there's other facets to it as well, but this certainly makes sense as a part of it.

I think I had a bit of a breakthrough......... The fluttering sessions tamed him down a bit for sure..... It pooped him out so much (literally haha he usually always poops after landing, but I noticed that when he does it on his own accord, i.e., not after being startled to flutter, he stopped pooping when he landed after a couple times - unless this was just because his system was pretty much cleared out at the time). He gets about ten inches off the floor of lift. He flutters straight up then comes down immediately. So only lasts a second. But I could see his little heart pumping and he was calmer after doing it about ten times total this morning.

His poops have a loooot of pee a lot of the time. Hope this is ok. Sometimes mostly pee. But after seed it's like typical poop.

He was out for a little over an hour with more walking/fluttering than I ever had him do and is silent in his cage right now.