Hello! Bringing home Wilma, a baby Senegal

[morgmaestro]

Hello everyone! Just introducing myself, I'm sure I will be visiting this forum frequently!

My name is Morgan, I live in Los Angeles and grew up with an umbrella cockatoo named Misha. I am bringing home a baby Senegal parrot I've named Wilma next Tuesday. I have been visiting her most days of the week for the last month and a half while she's been weaned. I am getting her from a bird store in North Hollywood where she has been living with her two brothers. She is a very sweet but very bossy baby and definitely the dominant one of the three babies! She's very curious and super friendly, in fact today I was able to introduce her to some young children and she didn't nibble at all.

A couple concerns of mine..
1) My boyfriend and I are both musicians and I'm hoping that she won't be afraid of our instruments (I play violin and viola and my boyfriend plays the huge double bass!). My cockatoo was always afraid of my viola, I think it's because the f-holes look like eyes. Hoping to desensitize Wilma right away while she's a baby, but if anyone has experienced this issue let me know.

2) I normally don't start working until 3pm and sometimes get home past 8pm, so I'm assuming she will be sleeping by the time I get home most evenings unless my boyfriend is home. I plan on feeding her fresh/organic fruit/veggies in the morning and leaving dried fruit/seed mix, veggies/fruits that won't spoil fast, and unsweetened pellets throughout the day into the night.

3) I've already purchased her a large cage with a play stand on top. Her cage will be in our office which will be the most quiet place in our house at night and I plan on rolling her cage out into the living room during the day. Will this be an OK substitute for a play stand for the time being?

Here's her cage:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OP ... UTF8&psc=1

Wilma eating Mango

[Wolf]

I have a Senegal parrot and love her dearly, but I am not sure that I would really want her interacting with young children. This not entirely because of the child as for me it has more to do with the nature of the Senegal itself.
Here is the usual disclaimer that we have all come to expect. Although there are patterns in the behavior of this species that appear to be a trait of the entire species there are exception to this general pattern of behavior is certain individual birds. OK, I am done with that.
Senegals, as a species appear to me to be one of the more aggressive species of parrots, with a strong tendency towards becoming one person birds. Also they appear to largely lack the tendency to nip as opposed to going directly to a severe bite. From here I can only share how my loving little Senegal is. She is usually a bit afraid of new items and will normally go out of her way to avoid these new items, unless the new item happens to be living, in which case her initial tendency is to attack it. She is quite capable of bopping me with her beak, or of delivering a light nip to get my attention, although she rarely acts in such a gracious manner. She normally goes for the one, two knock out bites, so to speak. She bites very hard often removing a hunk of flesh in the size range of nearly 1/4 inch long. This tendency makes me have serious reservations about this species interacting with young children. Thankfully, in most instances she will give adequate indications before biting, but not always, I would guess that about 25 to 30% of the time she bites hard with no warning.
She normally gets over her far of things fairly quickly, but in the case of violins, violas and even the large bass, I would be careful about allowing her to touch them as she could do a lot of damage to them in a very short time and the lacquer that is used on the wood would be a health hazard for her.
I must admit that I am somewhat surprised that you would not be much later at night, being a musician. Most of the musicians that I am familiar with don't often get started playing until later in the evening. In the winter months the schedule that you mentioned would be great as it starts getting dark around 4 to 4:30 in the evening, even now it is not too bad as it starts getting dark closer to 7:30 to 8 pm at this time of year, so during the summer months you may still be able to get home in time to tuck your bird in for the night. I am sure that getting up early enough to expose your bird to the dawns first light would be the most difficult part of arranging your schedule.
I feed my birds their cooked and fresh foods in the mornings and let them eat on these food items all day long and feed the higher protein food such as their seed mix only in the evening and then remove it after they go to sleep at night.
I was unable to look at the link to see the actual cage that you have picked out for your bird as the link causes me to get tossed offline. But I have several playtop cages for my birds, so I have an idea as to what you have. I can't say whether moving the cage from room to room will be feasible or not , it depends on your bird. Some bird don't seem to mind too much and others will avoid the cage like the plague if it is moved too much.

[liz]

Welcome to the forum. I am excited for you getting a new baby.

We seem to be getting a lot of new babies. Have you read the other threads. Most of the new posts are about babies.

[Pajarita]

Welcome to the forum, Morg and Wilma (great, great name for a sennie!). She is adorable and I love pictures of birds with dirty beaks

I was able to open the link and the cage seems adequate. I don't think she will be scared of the instruments as long as they are on the other side of the room where she is at the beginning (kind of like just another piece of furniture in the room). I would start by just leaving them there so she can get used to them and realize they are nothing to be scared of but I would start by practicing in another room so she can get used to the music, then open the door and allow her to see me playing it from afar, then moving closer... you see where I'm going? Just do it as slow as she needs it to be and it will be fine.

Please be ready with ingredients for soft food for when she finally comes home because they tend to regress a bit and, even if they don't, comfort food (soft, mushy and warm) always helps them with the stressful transition to a new home.

As to children and sonnies, I am afraid that I have to agree with Wolf. This doesn't mean that it's not possible to have them together in the same room because I have three birds flying around (two senegals -one male, one female- and one redbelly female) my downstairs (living room, dining room, kitchen) and up the stairs to the second floor with two grandchildren doing their thing (coloring, watching TV, playing video games, running around, fighting with each other ) and they simply ignore them and just fly from one spot to another, perch on me, etc. But my grandchildren know not to try to physically interact with them in any way, not to brandish sticks, swords or anything in the air, not to touch their cages, etc. because, like Wolf said, sennies are quite aggressive naturally and, although they are small, they can do A LOT of damage with their small beaks. Right now, I have four 'bumps', two of them with scabs, on the top of my head from the male getting overly excited yesterday and biting me. I don't think he was been truly aggressive (he used to be, though. He was, by far, the most aggressive bird I've ever had -and I've had A LOT of birds and many aggressive ones!), I think he just got a bit frustrated and took it out on my head but I spent yesterday 'teaching' him not to do it and he seems fine today (we'll see if it lasts ).

[morgmaestro]

Thanks for your responses!

I understand that Senegals and all parrots will bite, even my sweet umbrella cockatoo growing up would nip occasionally. Right now Wilma is not a biter, her and her brothers are being handled a lot at the bird store. They are actually the most well socialized birds in the store at the moment. I know that once she hits sexual maturity this could (and probably will) change so I am hoping to clicker train her and reward her now for not biting now while she's being so good. She is very curious and loves foot toys, also loves fresh fruit, so I am able to distract her easily with those things. I have a BA in Neuroscience so the ideas of operant and classical conditioning are very familiar to me.. (and I use these tactics with my violin and viola students already.. don't tell them.. ) ..but it's still all a great big experiment. I don't plan on having students touch her, but it would be nice to keep her in the same room with them. I'm considering getting a play stand for my studio and bringing her on Sunday when I teach during the day and get home early enough to put her to bed. The oldest (over 12) and most brave of my students could possibly hold her, under my and parental supervision, if they are aware of the consequences. My students are very responsible and intelligent children that follow instructions very well. I would never risk them being bitten, so I would be very cautious.

As for my hours, sometimes I do get home past 10pm but I am mostly a music teacher. My boyfriend is the one who gigs the most, but I'm assuming Wilma will become the most attached to me since I'll be the main caretaker. We both get up between 7-8am and the room I am keeping her in stays very dark with the blinds closed, so she may stay asleep until we wake up. We'll just have to see!

As for her chewing on our instruments, you better believe I will keep them away from her! They are VERY expensive. I am hoping she can be in the same room with me while I'm practicing is all. I guess that will come down to some desensitization training if she even is bothered by them. I didn't want to bring my instruments into the bird store cause I would risk freaking out 20+ birds at the same time.

The cage is 30x22x63 which I think is more than big enough for her. In the bird store they roll out the cages from the back so she might already be used to it. Regardless, I will probably get her a play stand in a couple months when I have the money.

Maybe this link will work:
http://www.amazon.com/Prevue-Hendryx-Si ... +bird+cage

Some other things..
I would like to get her used to being in the car, since I live in the LAland and drive a lot. I started getting her used to her travel cage yesterday and was very good about being put in it and stepping up on her way out. Many bird owners have noticed that she already trusts me a lot since I come and spend an hour or more with her 5x a week. In the future I plan on flight training her. The bird store clips wings, so she is clipped right now. In 6 months or so when she grows her wings back I'll be training her to fly and getting her a harness for outdoor walks.

[liz]

I was going to comment on that last paragraph but decided to leave it to Paj and Wolf.

[Wolf]

At this point, I really only have just a couple of comments to make. The first one is that no one knows how or why any parrot chooses the human that it does to bond with, but we do know that being the primary caretaker of the bird is not one of the reasons. I know of one bird who has chosen for its special person someone who is deathly afraid of birds and I have a bird that bonded to my Lady, although I am the birds caregiver. I don't resent this and in fact with three others bonded to me I am actually quite pleased with the birds choice.
I think that getting your bird acclimated to a travel cage and rides in your car is great and a very smart thing to do. I am also in agreement with you on flight and harness training her. I would caution you that even in LA there are predatory birds who will at times swoop down to remove a parrot from your shoulder, this has happened before, so you will want to keep an eye out for these birds during your walks. You live in LA, so I should not need to caution you about humans who my try to take your bird from you, but still will warn you to be very careful not to let strangers touch your bird.
The last thing that comes to mind is that you are off to a wonderful start with your bird, but please consider slowing down with the training when you bring your bird home. It will be in a strange new place and that is terrifying for such a young bird. You are visiting the bird now so that will help a lot as you will be the only one and the only thing that will be familiar to the baby. Most birds of this age require about a month or two to acclimate to their new environment, we call it the honeymoon period. Please consider using this time to just get used to your bird talking and singing to it, learning to read its body language, assessing and adjusting its diet and just hanging out with it. There will be plenty of time for training after the honeymoon period. Also don't forget to take the bird to the vet for a wellness exam shortly after you bring it home.

[morgmaestro]

I remember that the cockatoo I grew up with did not bond with my mother who took care of her, I understand this. I'm just hoping she likes me as my boyfriend is out of town a lot. She is always eager to step up onto me when I walk up to her, she even climbs down on perches to get to me, so I'm hoping these are signs that she will bond with me.

I will be on the look out when we're outdoors for sure, I know that there are hawks and unpredictable people around. Thanks for the suggestion on taking it easy with training once I get her back in the house, I can certainly wait a month or two. I am trying to be gentle and slow with her. Today the bird store allowed me to take her in her travel cage into my car and I turned on the engine. She stopped dead in her tracks (which she rarely does, she is very busy!) and stared at me until the car was turned off. She didn't get too afraid, but I'm glad we're taking baby steps together because I'm sure she'll react similarly at home. We will continue to do this in the house, it will give me time to find out what kind of food she likes to use as rewards when we start training.

[Wolf]

Although it is nice to have her bond to you and she probably will, at this early period in her life, this first bonding is the bond of parent and child and when she goes through puberty this bond is loosed in preparation for mate bonding and that is the bond that you are really looking for with this bird. So in many respects you would be better served if she would choose your boyfriend as her special human and you as the second, then in 18 to 24 months or so you have the better chance of her bonding to you as she will choose from those that she knows for this mate bond, and it is usually not the same personas they parent bonded with.

[Pajarita]

OK, first of all and please don't take this as criticism but as advice: plans and expectations don't work with parrots. A dog gives back what it's given but not a parrot. Parrots make their own decisions, based on their own reasons and couldn't care less if we are the caregivers, the ones that love them most or what we want out of them. It's as simple as that.

Right now, she would come to anybody she knows. She is a baby and parrot babies never bite, always want closeness, etc. But this changes so, when it does (and, most likely, it will), don't feel betrayed by her or get your feelings hurt because, like humans, parrots love who they love and that's all there is to it.

When she froze in the car, she was terrified so, please, slow down because rushing things is only going to stress her out and studies show that birds that go through stress when babies remain high strung for the rest of their lives -it does something to their psyche and it's not reversible- and taking into consideration how hard senegals bite, you do NOT want a high-strung one! She is a baby and babies need routine, familiarity and to feel secure. Wait until she is older (they become more self-assured and learn to trust your judgment as they mature) before you start introducing her to new things and, when you do, do it EXTREMELY slowly and only at the pace where she feels comfortable (and this will require you to learn her body language very well so you can tell when something is bothering her -and this is not an easy thing to do because their body language is completely different from a mammal, point in case, you actually misread her terror thinking that she wasn't 'too scared'). Parrots are not feathered dogs, they don't explore, they don't prey, they don't leave their territories, they are never without their family surrounding them, etc. Captivity, even in the best of circumstances, puts HUGE stress on them because the living conditions are so unnatural so it pays not to stress them unduly.

If she has been clipped since she was a baby, she might never fly and, if she does, she might not have much maneuvering skills (babies need to fledge correctly and master flight BEFORE they are clipped or their muscles never develop correctly and the neural paths required for adequate spatial skills are never formed) so, please take this into consideration.

Please, do not allow your students to handle her any time soon, if ever. It's not a matter of how responsible they are or how well they follow orders, it's a matter of how the bird might react and, sometimes, with sennies, they give you no warning and, when they bite, they take a nicely sized chunk out of you and, to make matters worse, they have a 'pitbull' bite (they will NOT let go even when the blood is running into their beaks!). And no parent is going to be happy with such a thing happening to his/her kid. Biting and parrots is not a matter of 'if', it's always a matter of 'when'. I have grandchildren and, right now, I have two senegals loose almost all day long. Neither of them bothers the kids but the kids know NEVER to approach one, never to put a hand out to them to step up, never to touch their cages, never to move too fast, to ignore them when they fly back and forth, etc and these lessons have been reinforced since they were tiny babies whereas your students might have no experience whatsoever with a parrot. My female, Zoey, is the sweetest, sweetest, sweetest bird to me (I did not raise her, she came to me as an adult), I can do almost anything with her and, so far, she hasn't bit me once but my husband is terrified of her because of a couple of bites she gave him (he goes around the house with a hoodie on and puts his hands inside his sleeves when he is near her) when she first came. Sennies are NOT patient or accommodating birds.

I would also caution you on the training. You mentioned operant and classic conditionings and, as far as I know, they don't work with parrots because unless you only use reward for operant (you can't use punishment -only positivite reinforcement) and for classic, it involves a reflexive reaction and, personally, I would not mess with that because, like I said, pet parrots are already under a huge amount of physical stress.