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Im new here!

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Re: Im new here!

Postby Wolf » Sat May 16, 2015 7:18 am

I understand where you are coming from, but working with a bird is nothing like working with a domesticated animal such as a dog or cat. One of the differences is that dogs and cats have a social structure that is similar to the social structure that humans have, they are also like us in that they are predators. This all works together to make a large part of understanding them much easier and almost second nature to us.
Parrots, regardless of the species are much more intelligent than dos or cats, and in most cases much more than we give them credit for. Parrots, unlike humans are prey animals, not predators and this all by itself makes them view the world in a much different fashion than we do.
we are accustomed to a dominance based structure, the flock structure is based on cooperation and their are no leaders to it. All birds in a flock are equals and each one makes its own choices. Parrots do not understand the concept of punishment and so while it may work with dogs it does not work with parrots. You have to work with the parrot to get it to want to do something for you and in many cases you have to get them to think that it is their idea.
They very first step to working with a parrot is to earn its trust, because it does not just give it. this trust serves as the foundation for everything that will follow. This means that you can't be effective if you do anything to jepardise that trust. You can not use punishment nor can you force the bird to do anything at all, or you risk losing their trust.
When it comes to treats to use for training it does help if the bird is hungrier but this should be accomplished through the use of timing and working with the birds natural rhythms of eating rather than by withholding any food. It is also a matter of what you use for a treat because a parrot values certain foods much more than others, so while it may be willing to do a step up for a piece of sunflower seed, it may not be willing to go into its cage for this treat and so you may need to use a higher value treat such as a piece of an almond to get it to go in.
One of the things that you really need to learn about and practice is reading and understanding your birds body language as it is as important in communication with the parrot as the sounds that it makes and due to the differences in our hearing it is more important and is often the key to understanding not only what the bird does but what and why it will do next given the circumstances at the time. Training any animal is more than most people are aware of in that for specifics such as roll over and play dead or other tricks a 10 to 15 minute time limit on sessions is great, but for everything else training is going on at all times. Every time you stop to talk to your bird, every time that you let the bird out of its cage or touch the bird you are training/ teaching the bird something. Every interaction is an opportunity for you to learn more about your bird as well as to teach the bird about yourself and contributes to the building of not only its trust but your entire relationship with the bird.
For your schedule to work you must consider the time that you have available, but you must also consider the birds natural rhythms as well as what the bird wants and / or needs. Try rewriting your schedule with all of this in mind and see what you come up with.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Im new here!

Postby Pajarita » Sat May 16, 2015 11:51 am

Wolf is right so I only have a couple of comments. I don't mean to imply you don't love your bird but all I see in your schedule is waking up, eating and lots and lots of training so where's the time for love? I don't see out-of-cage time, flight or one-on-one time anywhere and I also don't see a good diet or a solar schedule... and those are the important things, not training. A bird can be very happy and healthy without any training whatsoever but it cannot be healthy and happy without 4 hours of out of cage and flight, a couple of hours of one-on-one, a good diet, good light quality and schedule, etc.

And be careful with insisting on trick training on an aviary species. Of necessity, it has to be highly stressing for them and, most likely, futile in the long term. And you should never have to make an animal hungry in order to train it, the cruelty of such a concept doesn't bear considering... I propose that if the only way of getting an animal to perform is to make it hungry then it's safe to say that this is a species that will not benefit with training. Now, as to training, there is trick training and then there is teaching the bird certain skills that would make his life better like step up and step down, for example, but you don't need training sessions, targeting, rewards, clicker or anything to get a bird to do them because once the bird loves you, it will be more than willing.

Also, please do some more in-depth research on photoperiodism because 12 or 11 hours of sleep all year round will only get you a bird with a malfunctioning endocrine system and producing sexual hormones all year round.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18604
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: Im new here!

Postby BozidarL » Sat May 16, 2015 12:06 pm

Ok guys, thanks so much for helping!
Im a bit confused now but Ill do my best to understand you. I didnt get the photoperiodism thing at all but I will do some research. Sunny eats a mix of all kinds of seeds for small parrots like cockatiels and budgies. I open the cage door today and was spending some time with her, doing basic stuff over: Hand in the cage, then feeding from my hands, petting her, she got outside and we were doing some step-ups. Im making 2 T perches for her to be outside, mainly for flight rcl. Also training her to jump to my finger and a perch. Cuddling was done today also. Could you give me a few advices for feeding schedules and those photoperiodisn stuff? Every advice is accepted by me at this point.
BozidarL
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 19
Location: Croatia, Europe
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel, Canary
Flight: Yes

Re: Im new here!

Postby Wolf » Sat May 16, 2015 5:54 pm

Photoperiodism and diet at the same time will again make for a lengthy reply, but it is quite fitting that they be covered at the same time. I am not going to go into all of the documentation that we have provided as you can look them up in the Health, Diet and Nutrition section of the forum. But I will attempt to explain them to you.
Parrots are photoperiodic and, indeed, all birds are. This means, in the simplest of terms that their cycles are affected by light. Light enters the body and brain of the bird through its eyes as well as directly through its skull and the brain has receptors that react to this light regardless of how it receives the light. Most of these receptors are in the pineal and pituitary gland. The bird also has an internal biological clock located in this same area that is controlled by this light. This clock and these gland control most of the birds bodily functions as well as its sexual cycles. This is done through the production of various chemical substances called hormones. One of the things that affect the bird and its cycles is the length of the day and night, but it is much more complicated than this as the wavelength and frequency of the light plays an important part in all of this. The two periods of twilight that occur at dawn and dusk have an important role to play in the setting and the resetting of the biological clock. This internal clock is accurate to about 15 or 20 minutes. All of this works together to control the endocrine system which in turn affect nearly every function of the birds body as well as its immune system. Basically put, in order for the birds body to function correctly it must be exposed to both of these twilight period each day. This means that if you cover your bird at night that you need to get up early enough to uncover the bird just as the sky is barely beginning to show signs of lightening before the actual sunrise. The bird will wake up naturally right about sunrise. The bird will then go through the daylight hours and must be exposed to the dusk twilight period and go to sleep by full dark. both of these twilight periods must be without the interference of any artificial light. This will keep the birds systems functioning in time with the proper seasons. Light is one of the primary regulators for telling the birds body to start producing hormones to begin the reproductive cycle as well as for telling it to shut down these same hormones. The seasonal climate is also one of the things that help to regulate this but the next one that we as bird keepers need to be concerned with is diet.
Diet is , like light one of the main triggers to begin and end the reproductive cycle in birds and it is also directly involved with the proper functioning of the birds entire body and its various systems. For many years everyone feed bird an all seed diet and the birds were dying young from kidney, heart and liver disease. This led to the development of pellets as by grinding up all of the seeds the bird was no longer able to pick out its favorite seeds, which were the ones that were the highest in protein and fat. It also led to the understanding that our birds needed a diet consisting of both cooked and raw whole grains, cooked and raw vegetables, fruits and cooked legumes such as lentils and white beans. The feed companies then decided that if they added some dried vegetables and artificial vitamins and minerals that they could market their pelleted product as a complete diet. They cut back on the high protein seeds because of the cost and needed to replace some of the protein for the pellets to contain an adequate amount of protein and turned to soy beans and soy by products to fill this gap in their formulation because of its low cost. They claimed that their new pelleted diets were complete and that the bird would not need to eat anything else to be healthy. Over a short period of time this claim has proven to be false as feeding an all pelleted diet produced the very same issues as did an all seed diet.
Today we know that our birds need to eat whole grains, vegetables and fruit and cooked legumes and a measured amount of seeds. I have 5 different species of parrots ranging from a parrotlet and budgies on up to an Amazon parrot. I feed them first thing in the mornings 2 fresh, raw vegetables, a fruit and a fresh raw leafy green. This is followed by a cooked food that we call gloop and it consists of whole grains, mixed vegetables, white beans and lentils all of which are cooked. They have this available all day long and then for their dinner they receive a measured portin of a seed mix which I remove after they go to bed for the night.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Im new here!

Postby BozidarL » Sun May 17, 2015 2:13 am

Hmmmm, I think I got i now. I dont know what to do with the food but I will look up. Thanks!
BozidarL
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 19
Location: Croatia, Europe
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel, Canary
Flight: Yes

Re: Im new here!

Postby Wolf » Sun May 17, 2015 9:50 am

I am not sure what your biggest difficulty is or would be, perhaps the cooking. Perhaps you want to do more research into the diet for your birds, which I highly recommend and it is something that I devote considerable time to. In any case you can soak whole grains to soften them a little for your birds and feed them uncooked and in any case you really should begin teaching your birds to start eating fresh raw vegetables, leafy greens and fruits. since your bird is accustomed to a seed based diet it will take a considerable amount of time to get it to start eating a healthier diet as it will probably not recognize these things as food. I have birds that I am still working with, after three years, to get them to eat a large enough of a variety of fresh foods to insure that they get a well balanced diet.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Im new here!

Postby BozidarL » Sun May 17, 2015 4:49 pm

Okey Wolf. Ill do my best with the research. You didnt have to say that last thing with 3 yrs... LOL - Im pretty lazy as it is now xD
BozidarL
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 19
Location: Croatia, Europe
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel, Canary
Flight: Yes

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