Hello - New Senegal - Need advice

[Sherry]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and I really wish I'd found you all sooner. I will tell you a little about myself first. I am a bird lover like all of you here and reside in Canada. I had two budgies growing up which I adored. As my daughters reached an age where they began wanting a pet we decided on budgies for them as well. They are English budgies, Merlin (blue, gray & white) age 3 and Kiwi (green, yellow & black) age 2. They are both very sweet, each with different personalities. Merlin is very curious and a talker. Wants to be with you always which we love. Kiwi loves Merlin and goes wherever he goes and also enjoys being with us. Likes his own space some of the time though and will contentedly sit in his cage on his own chirping away. Both little guys are free to roam out of cage at all times unless we are out.

I had been wanting another bird of my own for some time and did do research, however maybe not as much as I thought. There is a lot of mixed information about different breeds of parrots out there and I was seeing conflicting information. I had kind of narrowed down my choice to a GCC, thinking that would be a good fit for our family and to be with the budgies. I had been looking at rescue shelters and hadn't found any at the time and the advice I was getting was that a baby would be best to introduce to the budgies (so wish I had come across this forum first).

So, I came across a local breeder of GCC's. She seemed pretty knowledgeable and offered lots of information freely which I appreciated. I asked her about how a GCC would be with budgies and she said fine but a Senegal might be better. She mentioned she also bred them and would have one ready soon as well. We did purchase a 3 month old female baby Senegal (Tikka) from her. She is beautiful, and seems sweet most of the time, however I am beginning to wonder if I made a mistake in trusting the breeders advice about the Senegal being a better fit than the GCC especially with the budgies. Of course the Senegal was more expensive, I hate to think that she was "up selling".

We have had her home for about 6 weeks now. She is somewhat bitey although most of the time not that hard and I do the firm, "no bite" while re-directing her beak. I've started target training, getting her to go from perch to cage, to me, etc. However, we have an open concept home with vaulted ceilings and chandeliers that are suspended with nice chains that she loves to fly to . Ishe doesn't seem to want to recall from those. Any suggestions on getting her to avoid those would be greatly appreciated.

My biggest concern however is the budgies. We've taken it slow with introductions, letting them just see each other in the same room from cages. Had them out separately for a time, then started having them out at the same time. We have held Tikka in a controlled manner (watched Michael's video on that) while near the budgies. They continue to be fearful of her and a few times she has lunged at them while they were on me at the same time (Tikka on my shoulder, a budgie on the opposite arm).

After reading posts here about a Senegal's aggression and possible change in character after puberty, I'm concerned especially of the size difference of the birds. Did the breeder give me poor advice? Would the GCC have been a better choice? Any advice or insight on any of the above is much appreciated? Thanks to all of you that share your time and knowledge to help up newbies be better parrot parents.

[Wolf]

I would hate to have to tell you that the breeder was just upselling to get more money, not knowing what the breeder actually said, but it is a distinct possibility, at least in my opinion. Regardless of that, it would be a difficult call to make as both of these species of parrots tend to be single person birds and will fiercely defend their chosen human from unwanted advances by any other bird and even other humans. Both the Senegal and the GCC tend to want to spend the majority of their time out of cage with their human. From this point I can continue with experiences with my Senegal hen, but can't really go much further with the GCC as I don't have any of them.
All parrots go through a personality change when they go through puberty, it is the time that they transition from being a baby bird, dependent upon their parents to their adult personality and seek out and bond with their mate, having released the bond with their parents.
it also occurs with budgies although since they don't bond with humans to the same extent it may not be as noticeable.
Due to the nature of the Senegal and probably the GCC I would not count on them being great friends with the budgies. But really can't answer that fully at this time.
I have a pair of budgies, but have not had them long enough to let them out at the same time as my other birds. I also have a parrotlet and have managed to get it and the Senegal to both perch on different arms without any aggression, but I do watch them both very closely. as both can be rather aggressive when it comes to the other being on their human.
There are others on this forum with more experience than I have with all of these birds, so I expect you will hear from some of them soon.

[Roonil Wazlib]

Welcome to the forum
just wanted to say Hello - I can't really help you on this matter, unfortunately.

[Sherry]

Thanks Wolf. Thinking back now on some of my conversations with the breeder is kind of confirming what I suspect, but that is all kind of moot now. She did mention previously that she is always willing to re-home a bird if someone changes their mind. I just wondered if I should consider getting a GCC instead if it would make a difference with our other birds. I'm just a little scared for them and don't want to be nervous about them out together all the time. I am very watchful always. We love her already of course and I'd hate to make a swap. I just wondered if the size of the GCC being a little more in line with the English budgies (they are slightly larger than commercial budgies) would work better. I do want a companion bird who wants to be with me always, but not at the expense of the others safety. Not sure what I should do. Feeling a little sad about it all.

Can you tell me what sort of changes your Senegal went through at puberty? How did her character change? About how old was she? I have read anywhere from 9 months to 2 or 3 years. How can there be such a spread in the timeline?

Also, what do you feed your Senegal? Tikka is currently on Harrison's pellets and she gets lots of fresh veggies during the day and some fruit. I see a lot of people talking about "gloop". I wondered if there is a recipe that you could share as well as how much of everything you feed each day? Thanks again for your help.

I would hate to have to tell you that the breeder was just upselling to get more money, not knowing what the breeder actually said, but it is a distinct possibility, at least in my opinion. Regardless of that, it would be a difficult call to make as both of these species of parrots tend to be single person birds and will fiercely defend their chosen human from unwanted advances by any other bird and even other humans. Both the Senegal and the GCC tend to want to spend the majority of their time out of cage with their human. From this point I can continue with experiences with my Senegal hen, but can't really go much further with the GCC as I don't have any of them.
All parrots go through a personality change when they go through puberty, it is the time that they transition from being a baby bird, dependent upon their parents to their adult personality and seek out and bond with their mate, having released the bond with their parents.
it also occurs with budgies although since they don't bond with humans to the same extent it may not be as noticeable.
Due to the nature of the Senegal and probably the GCC I would not count on them being great friends with the budgies. But really can't answer that fully at this time.
I have a pair of budgies, but have not had them long enough to let them out at the same time as my other birds. I also have a parrotlet and have managed to get it and the Senegal to both perch on different arms without any aggression, but I do watch them both very closely. as both can be rather aggressive when it comes to the other being on their human.
There are others on this forum with more experience than I have with all of these birds, so I expect you will hear from some of them soon.

[Sherry]

Thanks Roonil!

Welcome to the forum
just wanted to say Hello - I can't really help you on this matter, unfortunately.

[Pajarita]

Welcome to the forum, Sherry and birdfriends! If you have been reading the forum and our postings, you already know that Wolf is much more tactful than me so it won't come as a surprise to you that I, most definitely, think that the breeder only said that so you would buy the more expensive bird that she had available at the time.

Now, I don't buy babies and hardly ever end up with a juvenile so I have no personal experience with what, exactly, happens during a sennie's puberty or when it happens except for what I have read but puberty for birds is the same as for kids, namely, sexual hormones raging, bad moods, attitude, etc. The intensity of these symptoms and what happens after is a matter of husbandry so it depends entirely on the diet, light schedule, owner's experience and patience, etc. But I can tell you that sennies are much more jealous of their chosen one that GCCs and that, in my personal experience, GCCs seem to be very tolerant of little birds. Mine lives in the same room as my canaries and finches (which are much smaller than she is) and there has never, ever been a single problem. She loves to steal their food (even though she gets the same produce) and chew on their cuttlebones but, aside from that, she never bothers them at all and none of them are even remotely afraid of her. GCCs are one person birds, the same as every other parrot species we use as companions, but there are levels of 'possessiveness' within the different species and sennies are high up on the list while female GCCs are low. The female sennie I have now was given up due to an ultimatum from the owner's wife who got attacked all the time, and it happened right after the sennie had badly bit a plet they had. This same sennie took a couple of years before she started getting along with my husband. And, although it's been 10 months since Isis (African Red Bellied) came to live with us, it's only now that I can let them both out at the same time and this only for a little while and watching her like the proverbial hawk. Senegals are jealous, JEALOUS little birds which don't accept any competition when it comes to their chosen one's attentions. But, as long as they feel they are number one and they are not hormonal, they can be accommodating so whether she will accept the budgies or not depends on who her human will be and whether she perceives the budgies as competition.

There are several recipes for gloop in the Diet forum, from the easy 'supermarket' one to the more complicated. But I can't help you with pointers on how to consistently get a bird down from the highest point in the room. Recall works but not all the time and not even for highly trained birds so although I would train her for it (reserving the highest value item only for this), I would not expect it to be 100% all the time.

[Sherry]

Thanks Pajarita. I really appreciate the information. I am so unsure what to do. We are already attached to Tikka, but I am wondering if we should consider having the breeder re-home her and get a GCC. I just don't know if I could do it. I was home with her today and she was definitely making it known to the budgies today that they need to keep their distance when she is on me. Ugh! I wish I had a crystal ball sometimes.

I was poking around in the Diet section for recipes for the gloop. I haven't found a specific one yet, but will keep digging. There is such a wealth of information on this site!

Thanks again.

[Wolf]

The thing about "Gloop" is that the ratio is what is most important as the actual ingredients can vary to some degree. By volume I measure out 2 cups of whole grains, 2 cups of frozen mixed vegetables and 1/3 cup of white beans and lentils. This is my basic mix. I measure the various ingredients out based on cooking times so I end up with a lot of small containers of ingredients at first. I then start combining the ingredients that can be cooked together to reach the desired doneness at the same time and cook them. For example lentils and wild rice cook together as they have the same cooking time. The ratio that I am shooting for is 40% each of the total whole grains and mixed vegetables and 20% total of white beans and lentils.
That is the closest that I have to an actual recipe because I keep tweeking it and changing the ingredients to improve upon it. Eventually I will end up with 3 or 4 recipes that while some what different will maintain the ratio and I will write them down for here on the forum. I just am not quite there at this time. Variety is the key to making this food work in order to insure that it meets all of the nutritional requirements of my birds. It is kind of like trying to supply a growing child all of the right nutrients with just one basic food. Right now I measure al of the whole grains out in equal amounts to reach the desire amount, but as I learn more about nutrition, I am cutting back on the grains like wheat and sometimes even eliminating it from the batch as I am working on reducing the amount of carb a little overall. I also end up tweeking some batches as the birds don't always like what I did and will eat less of it so I end up adding a little more of this or that to those batches. It is a work in progress. Some of my birds like carrots more and some prefer peas and I try to consider this when making the food.
As for the chains that you speak of, recall training is about all you can do to get them to come back down. I suppose that it is still recall but I work a lot on my birds just coming to me when I call them, the same as I do with my dogs and cats.
Kiki, my Senegal, thinks that her proper place when not in her cage is on my shoulder or arm. Kookooloo, my CAG wants to be on me for a short while and then next to me as she is less inclined to touching. But she doesn't want Kiki to be on me either and will climb up my body to chase her away. Skeeter, my parrotlet only perches on me, although has started to play with things next to me a little. Kiki, will allow Skeeter to perch on one of my arms when they are both out, although it is not her favorite thing. The fact that Skeeter is so aggressive, and will attack anyone human or animal that gets close enough probably helps to keep Kiki at bay, but it means that I have to watch both of them very closely to prevent a fight. I also do my bet to give them all time on me without the others so that none of them has reason to feel slighted.
The budgies haven't been with me long enough to try any of this with them yet as I am still working on getting them to trust me enough and regular beak trims for Harley, the male are not helping with this. Since they were abused at one point before they came here it is going to take some time with them. They are a mated pair so that helps in that they don't really feel like they need me, although I really would prefer more one on one time with them, they are good with general attention and with each other.
Always something to do with them, but never a dull moment.

[Pajarita]

Geez, I started making gloop for my birds 20 years ago and I'm still tweaking it! Here is a thread with the 'easy' gloop recipe: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13666

[Sherry]

Thank you Wolf and Pajarita! All the information on the gloop is very helpful. I plan to shop for some of the ingredients tomorrow to make some this weekend. Tikka loves to eat pretty much everything and so far hasn't turned down any vegetable we've given her. Crossing my fingers that doesn't change. She has also had quinoa, barley, wild rice and lentils which she seemed to like as well. Thank you again.

Sherry