hi im new ere and would like help and avice please

[terry hayward]

Hi My names Terry and i recently purchased a 4 month old indian ringneck iv had him now for 2months and im at a stand still and stuck what to do with him now.
When i first got him he hadnt been handled and he was so timid and cowered in corner all the time and used to scream and bite my hands and not let go when i tried to get him out, my hands were sore and covered in scabs but i persevered with him, i took him to the vets and had his wings clipped so i could do more with him. Since then hes come along way and iv put a lot of work in with him and he now comes out and ive got him to step up from the stick to stepping up on my hand. but hes still so timid hes scared in cage still and you can see him watching us all the time but as soon as we give him eye contact he turns away as though hes not really watching us, he dosnt make any noises what so ever except the occasional grinding noise were begining to think he cant whistle, iv tried to hand feed him but hes scared to death and panics and flies off. we just want to love him and stroke him but dont know what else to do. i have got a parrot table in a small room that i let him into to train him and he does know when i get him out he flies up there as its upstairs in my sons bedroom and he will sit quite happy up there watching my son on his xbox, we originally bought him for me and my son as my son wanted a best friend and we did do a lot of research that said they were the best bird for a kids and were really good talkers. When im out at work i play a parrot talking cd to him and on a morning he dose have his fruit for breakfast and he sits on his dish waiting for it and then at tea time he as parakeet food.
I know he has come along way in eight wks when we look back but just feel at a stand still at the moment..... any advice would be very helpful thanktou terry x
4

[Wolf]

I just wrote a very long and detailed reply to you and somehow lost it. In order to save time, I will write much more later please read these links.
http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww13eiv.htm
http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww15eii.htm
http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww46e.htm
http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww59eii.htm
These will give you some of the basic information that I lost in my reply to you although I don't agree with all of what these say they are still very helpful. More later.

[Pajarita]

Well, my dear, the problem is that you did not do what you were supposed to do. You brought a baby to a strange house and, because he was scared (completely normal!), you took away the only way he had of avoiding danger (clipped him) so, what you did was increase his anxiety. Your 'perserverence' which ended up with you getting bit over and over actually made things worse because, instead of building trust, the foundation of any loving relationship between a human and a parrot, you proved to him that you simply cannot be trusted to respect his wishes or even understand what he was telling you (parrots only bite when they cannot get their point across with body language). You can't do that with parrots, especially when they are young and beginning to 'shape' their ideas as to what is good and what is bad. Furthermore, although IRNs are good talkers and beautiful, they are never recommended for first time owners because they are difficult birds to handle as they require experienced people with lots and lots of time in their hands (children not been known for either).

He is still young and you might be able to turn him around but you will have to completely change your whole approach and philosophy, put a lot of time, a lot of planning and a lot of work into it. Please look at the links Wolf provided you with and let us know what you think, what your doubts are, etc. We will do our very best to help your bird.

[terry hayward]

Thanku so much for ur advice I feel really bad now about getting his wings clipped i did read up and lots of sites recommend it, he is flying about now and I won't be getting it done again, I took him to the vet and they recommend it too. I do try to vary his diet I cook pasta n rice for him but he always prefers his fruit especially apple, he as kale mist days. I did ere him about 6 oclock this morning making lots of noice which iv never heard before, I thought it was the birds outside. He dose av a really big open top cage and a seperate stand too in his training room. I really do want to gain his trust and my son whos 10 his hoping to be his best friend.

[Wolf]

It seems to me that the reason that so many vets recommend clipping the bird's wings is to help prevent the bird from escaping from owners who are not very observant of their birds. The reason for this trend within the bird forums seems to be mostly for the same reason, although on the forums it has also been recommended because people don't want to be put out with the effort of making their space safe for the bird to be in They mistakenly feel that if they can catch the bird then they will prevent it from getting hurt or killed, sadly this has been proven time and again to be in error. Another reason that they give is that it helps with training and reduces aggression. It does, but only because without being able to escape the human can force itself on the bird and if the bird is small enough that it can't inflict a serious wound on the human when they are forcing themselves on it the bird gives up until it is nearly insane with hatred of the person and then becomes unhandleable and is sent to a rescue or rehomed privately and the cycle continues in most cases. A parrot that has not been taught to bite and lash out by these methods is generally a peaceable creature who unless startled will normally try to let you know that it doesn't want to have something done to it with its body language. Yes, I do get the occasional hard bite from my birds, but only if I don't pay attention to them or if they slip and have to catch themselves and even then they try to be as gentle as they can. They have all of the intelligence that is expected of a 5 year old human child and they know when they are being mistreated. A bird that is not clipped can escape from harm in most circumstances and instead of biting when they don't want to have something done to them will fly a short distance away. This is a bird that is not fearful nor overly aggressive it is a confident bird and if this bird trusts you then you have earned it and the bird will want to spend most of its time with you. A parrot is not a domesticated animal like a cat or dog, it is a wild creature with all of the drives and behaviors of its wild counterparts. Every interaction that they choose to participate in with you is directly due to its trust in you. It cooperates with you because it wants to.
Many vets will recommend that you feed your bird pellets, not because they believe in the product, but because it is the only way for them to insure a minimum level of nutrition for the bird, because most bird owners who work out will not take the time to properly feed their bird otherwise. They want the easy way out.
My birds wake up just as the sun is coming up over the horizon. Shortly after that I feed them a fresh raw vegetable or two, a fresh fruit without seeds in it, and a fresh leafy green. In about an hour I feed them a cooked mixture consisting of cooked whole grains ( 40% ), cooked mixed vegetables ( 40%), and cooked white beans and lentils ( 20% ). I leave all of these in the cage for my birds until dinner time when I remove these items and give them a good quality seed mix which I remove when the bird goes to bed for the night. My birds are all asleep by full dark. My birds are also all exposed to the two twilight periods of the day without the interference from artificial light sources as this is required to keep their biological clock tuned to the seasons. My birds are all out of their cages for at least 4 to 5 hours each and every day with an hour or more being spent directly on me by each of the birds. This is play time, petting time and training time all rolled together. I spend a lot of time talking and singing and even dancing with my birds, I hang out with them both in and out of the cage. This is a quick recap of an average day in the life of my birds. Also my birds all have a variety of toys to play with and destroy both in and out of their cages although they don't play with them all that much as when they are out they prefer to play with me and when in their cages the relax and spend time napping and talking to each other.
Please take the time to share a similar rundown of an average day in the life of your bird. It will help us to see what may need to change as well as help us to give you advice. Pictures are also helpful.

[terry hayward]

Hi as soon as I get up on a morning buddy lets me know he wants his breakfast so he as kale apple and grapes, and fresh water. And then I go to work ad just started bk full time after been part time 13yrs with kids, he as a big open top cage with a variety of toys that I change between and treat bars, I put a cd on for him while im out. My husband does shifts so hes at home every other wk well im at work, And then when I get home around 5 and, il will sit with him 10 mins and then I make the familys tea and then get buddy out and hes out about 3hrs wk days, were he flys around and I do some training wirh him. I then put him bk and feed him his tea which is seed. If we are avin pasta I always try him some when were avin our tea as he watches us eat. On a wkend when were in I open top of his cage to come out as he wants n he goes bk when hes ad enough and I take him up into his training room which is my sons bedroom and he flys around n watches my son on xbox and then il go up and get him to step up a few times and just sit talking with him. Iv tried just sitting by his cage talking to him and reading and my son reads to him too, and I stick my hand in cage with a treat trying to coach him to me but he will go as far away as he can to stay away from me. I just want to be able to feed him treats n him sit with us and trust us. Thanku for ur advice and ur guidance so far terry x

[Pajarita]

Well, this time of the year, the sun rises very early giving you some extra time before you go to work so I suggest you get up a bit earlier so you can let him out of his cage for an hour or so before you put his breakfast in his cage and put him back there before you go to work. Stop putting your hand in his cage. He doesn't like it and he doesn't trust you enough to take a treat out of your hand because of the flooding techniques you used on him. Try putting a treat near him while you read to him or are doing chores around him and just keep on doing what you are doing but peep at him out of the corner of your eye (don't stare straight at him) to see if he takes a step or two forward to get his treat. If he doesn't, just put the treat in his bowl before you leave. Eventually, he will start realizing that your pushing him has stopped for good and he will start taking baby steps toward trusting you. Basically, your plan is to do NOTHING to make him feel uncomfortable and that you ALWAYS defer to his wishes so start observing him closely and making mental notes about his body language. This means no training, no asking him to step up, no nothing unless he is willing to do it or takes the initiative for it. If you need to move him, ask him to step up but, if he doesn't do it immediately, don't insist. Wait, at least, half an hour and ask him again. If he absolutely refuses to do it no matter how long you wait and after the third try (don't ask more than three times), offer him a treat on the other side of the stick so he has no choice but to step on it to get it but, if he doesn't want to do this, don't ask him again and manage without moving him - and if this means that you have to move your son's game to the room where he is in, do it. You will need to be very patient because he is like a small child that has never been shown love and rejects all loving approaches - it will take some time for the whole 'thing' to click into place, if you know what I mean. Always praise, praise, praise, praise. Parrots are very smart and even when they might not understand the words themselves, they certainly understand what different tones of voice mean. I have a male Senegal that due to his aggression was kept caged for years and years but, apparently, once upon a time, somebody did let him out of his cage because when I scold the dogs, my grandchildren or my husband, even though I am not talking to him or using the same words I use with the birds and he is not even in the same room, he can tell that I am upset and immediately starts saying in a loud and VERY angry tone of voice: "STOP IT! STOP IT! GET INSIDE! GET INSIDE!" which is, obviously, what was said to him to get him back into his cage when he bit the human that said it and which he, correctly, interpreted as scolding. So always use a sweet and high voice and, if you can manage a little singsong, better still (they like cadence, rhythm and refrains). Don't command, ask sweetly and always praise praise praise when he does something well (a clicker might indicate a positive result but praise implies positive feelings).

[terry hayward]

Thanku very much thatas really helpful I will give it a go and keep u upto date, iv ad top of his cage open all day n he's been coming in n out as he pleases. I av got a clicker whick I used to help with the steop up Theres so much information on internet out there that contradicts and it can become quite confusing Whats right and what isn't. I don't think he ad a good start as were I got him he was in a tiny cage which the man tried to pressure me to buy but I didn't and when he got him out to put in the box for me to bring home he put gloves on and sort of pinned him down at bottom of cage to catch him, so I just couldn't wait to get him home n spoil him, n he his spoilt I can help myself I buy him something different every time I pass a pet shop. Just want him to let us in as the whole family wants to love him xxx

[ParrotsForLife]

He should have seed or pellets in his cage at all times you said in the mornings you just feed him fruit and other stuff.

[liz]

The routine is to give them gloop which is softened grain and vegetables. (I don't mix them. mine get two plates). For their evening meal they should get seed just in case they did not get full on the other.
By evening mine are so full of the other that they barely touch the seed. I guess they consider it desert.