Stopping here to say hello

[BeatriceC]

It's all good. I figured you were having the same sort of reaction I do when people see the giant breed dogs and go "I Want!" It's almost a knee jerk reaction to point out just how much work they are and what all the negatives are. My preferred breed is a Brazilian Mastiff, which are slightly smaller than English Mastiffs (average male is 110-140 pounds instead of 150-180), but are a whole heck of a lot more difficult. They hate strangers and are liable to attack if they feel their family is threatened, even if the owner says "no". The amount of daily, ongoing training required to make them good pets is intense (training them out of their stranger-danger instinct is the hardest part). The first thing out of my mouth is usually "do you know how many hours I spend working with this dog every day?!?!?" This is not a "train a puppy and relax" kind of breed. Maybe one of the reasons why a macaw is so appealing to me is that I miss that kind of intense work with an animal on a daily basis.

From reading, I see that macaws are pretty much the same way in that regard. The difference for me, as far as I can see, is that I grew up with lots of dogs so reading their body language and knowing how to adjust training for individuals is pretty instinctual for me. I never had birds until I moved in with MrC, so I'm on a pretty steep learning curve. So far my instincts have served me fairly well, but I could be a whole lot better. I'm also open to the idea that I'll get into volunteer work and realize that a macaw isn't for me, or that there's another species that is a much better fit. That's probably point number 4,652 why volunteering at a sanctuary is a good idea.

Wow. Sorry, that was long winded. So, the TL;DR is No worries, I totally understand that you're coming from a place of concern for animals that are near and dear to you.

[Wolf]

Yeah, something like that, only, I never really thought about them as negatives, just some of the areas that many people never stop to consider. After all, some of what they might consider to be negatives are precisely the things that make the creature so much more attractive to me.

When Kiki, Senegal, first arrived at the house, I had to rely on instinct until I could find out what sort of parrot she was, what she needed to eat and then to learn about how to get along with and work with her, as I knew absolutely nothing about parrots.

At that time, I knew that there were more than one kind of parrot, but had only ever seen a B&G Macaw. So although she did look like a different type of parrot than that, I thought that she was a little baby and would grow to be that size or near to it. I was both relieved and disappointed to learn that she was as big as she was going to be.

[Pajarita]

Yes, volunteering does give you a hands-on experience if you are there fairly often (it takes time for a bird to get used to a new person) but I think that giving yourself 18 months is what is going to make the biggest difference because it takes about two years for a bird to get actually settled into a new home - and this means their behavior can change radically from been a great bird to been a pain in the neck that doesn't get along with the other birds and/or turns on his people. You will not believe the number of people who take in several birds in a short period of time just to end up with problems because they simply did not wait long enough between them. Just to give you an example, I have a LS2 named Freddie for over three years now and he was great with all the other birds but, recently (last two to three months or so), he has taken to bully the others to the point that my poor TAG is now all stressed out because of him so now I have no choice but to give three of them (there is another cockatoo, an older, completely plucked one I took in about 6 months ago and which, I think, was the catalyst for the problem) turns in their cages, which they HATE with a passion!

The cockatiel will never give you any trouble but the Senegal and the amazon together might prove to be a problem so, yes, wait, at the very least, 18 months to 2 years before you make any decision to add another large bird or you might find yourself all stressed out and spreading yourself thin trying to keep all of them happy.

[BeatriceC]

One advantage we have is a giant house. While I complain bitterly about how much work it is to clean, this is a good thing if there comes a time when the birds need to be separated more than just a month long quarantine. I have three other rooms on two other floors of the house where I could set up a second bird room if Leo and Goofy wind up not getting along (or at least not learning to ignore each other). The house is about 4300 square feet (it might be bigger...there's some discrepancies in the plans), over three floors. I have options. And if, for whatever reason, these three prove to me as much bird as I can handle, then I won't bring another one in. I do appreciate you guys coming in and giving me the warnings of all the potential road blocks. I have done a lot of reading, so most of it is stuff I've seen before, and am taking into account, but it just goes to show how much you care about birds. Please be assured I have no intention of randomly acquiring another bird, particularly not a bird like a macaw, even though it's my dream to bring one into my family. Any plans for a large bird will be undertaken very slowly, and absolutely not if there are any situations (like Leo and Goofy being a handful together) that would contraindicate adding to the flock.

[Wolf]

Seems to me as you have things well in hand and that you have also probably done a much more thorough job of research about parrots than most of us did in the beginning. Thanks for being patient with me while I pointed out some of the first problems that many people who are new to birds encounter. I try to get that part of it out of the way as soon as I can, I think it leaves more time for enjoying stories about you and your birds.

[BeatriceC]

I do appreciate all the information you guys provide. These forums are a veritable treasure trove of information, and I really like how you and Pajarita jumped in with basic information and starter tips. It just so happens that we're a family of nerds. I'm a mathematician and MrC is a research scientist (biophysics). "Research everything to death before acting" is pretty much how we do everything. Also, while I'm still a newbie with birds, I'm not a newbie with animals in general. I wanted to make sure I could provide the best home for any animal that joins our family. I actually hesitated quite a bit before taking in Leopold. I've read so much about how they can be aggressive and even bully birds as big as amazons, that I thought about 50 extra times about him. I visited him a few times and even tried out some of the training advise on Goofy to see if I was comfortable with bird training before I made the decision. I also visited with a number of other birds. There was an African Grey that I was also considering, but little Leo just snuggled up to me so cutely every time I visited that he melted my heart.

I still have a lot to learn. I'm sure I'll make mistakes and have lots of questions as time goes on, and I'm really, really glad these forums are here to answer those.

Now I need to go update my training thread with a funny story that happened with Leo tonight!

[Wolf]

I make mistakes and xome of them, I don't realize are mistakes until my birds tell me about it. We are all so new to parrots that we all have a lot to learn, There was no research done on parrots, with parrots until the 1070's, so we are on the cutting edge of parrot research as there has not been enough time to do long term research and have any results, much less to make them available to us, the general public.

I have only had birds for3 years, well actually I am well into the fourth year, that is when Kiki, Senegal arrived demanding to come in because she was freezing and hungry. I had spent 30 years working with animals not to mention the dogs and cats that have always been a part of my life.. But, parrots? I knew nothing at all other than that it was a parrot of some sort. I am constantly researching about parrots and it was my desire to understand them better as much as my need to do so that prompted me to become verbal and start answering what questions that I could here on the forum. I mean what better way to learn about them myself than to help others learn, which caused me to have to research to find good answers for questions that I had not even thought of yet? One of the most important thinks that I learned, at least for a person like me, is that there are no experts on parrots, except for the parrot itself. Works for me as I enjoy watching and playing with them all of the time. In fact most of my answers are typed by the light of the monitor on my laptop, so as to not disturb the birds while they sleep, and that is as dim as I can get by with and still type. Just occurred to me how much trouble I would be in if I lost my night vision, wow.

[Pajarita]

Wolf is 100% correct, there are no parrot experts. Not even the avian vets, the behaviorists, the trainers, the biologists or even the ethiologists are experts in pet parrot behavior, diet or needs - and, to make matters worse, they all have very distinct individual personalities and, just like people, they change as they get older so living with them is a constant adventure 'cause you never know what will happen I've had parrots since 1992, ran a rescue with around 240 birds for 6 years and the one thing I can tell you for a fact is that I know very little! I feel perfectly confident dealing with dogs and cats (was also involved with rescue and have had multiples for many years) but not with parrots.

Now, although the house is wonderfully roomy, the thing with parrots is that you can't put them all by themselves in a room and leave them there for hours and hours so you can't really use a room for one and another one for the other - they would get too lonely and stressed out because they need constant company.

[BeatriceC]

Oh, goodness! I would never leave a parrot all by himself! If I had to set up a separate bird room I'd see a lot less of MrC, as I'd move myself to the second bird room. I took in this bird, and I'm not going to give him up, no matter what. If I have to adjust my life for him, then that's what I'll do.

Right now, the bird room doubles as an office. Both MrC and I have desks in there. Until Leo arrived, that's where I spent most of my day when I wasn't doing housework. Since Leo has been home, I've moved operations to where he is for a huge chunk of the time. If they hate each other and I have to set up a separate room for them, I'd move my desk as well. MrC and I don't have to be 20 feet away from each other all day every day. Honestly, I don't see that happening. I caught them "talking" to each other last night. They're separated, but sound travels. One would call, the other would answer and then repeat, with Cookie occasionally interjecting his own opinions. They both seemed pretty relaxed. We'll see what happens next month when they get moved closer to each other (from advise I've read here, the plan is to move Leo slowly over the course of a few days to a week).

I feel a little bit better about my lack of confidence. Parrots are amazing animals. I'm completely head over heels in love with them (Even Goofy, who I'm not convinced isn't plotting my untimely demise).

[Wolf]

I have pretty much learned to not attach more than the vaguest of timelines to parrots and to take my cues directly from their current and recent actions and reactions. They are so intelligent and each with their very own changeable personalities that no other way appear to be accurate enough to suit me. They are very much like a very young human child in many ways sort of like a very smart 3 year old, I put it that way as they are smart enough to be a 5 or 6 year old but they are more like a 2 or 3 year old in their emotional responses, and even that has its exceptions.

The quarantine period is always difficult for the birds and for the humans as well, but it is hard on the birds much more than for the human. The new bird is afraid because it has lost all that it knew and was familiar with and is alone which it knows is a death sentence if it were to be living in its normal environment. But it is also hard on the new and older bird because although they may not be able to see each other they can still hear each other. This hearing each other may work beneficially in that they do know that there is another bird and so sometimes may help when it comes time for introductions to begin due to them talking back and forth with each other. I know that this is just my opinion and it has probably never been tested enough for any of us to know if it is valid or mot, but at this point it is my opinion and has been workable in my home. Still introduction need to progress slowly and with respect for the natural territorial boundries of all of the species involved as well as respect for their personalities. I am always pleased when they are able to be out in the same room without attacking each other.

I have an Amazon, a Grey and a Senegal, they are all very different from each other. The Amazon is still pretty much cage bound still after over three years of working with her, the Grey and the Senegal are both bonded with me and both want to be on me most of the time, but do not like the other one being on me at the same time as they are and unless I keep a good watch on them will fight for possession of my body. They however do just fine with being out in the same room together. As long as they are not on me then they are fine except for if I leave one of them closed in their cage as then the other will climb on the cage belonging to the other which could result in missing toes, so I open their cages at the same time and they all come out, except for Mimi the Amazon, but they pretty much leave her alone anyway.