Hi from me and my first bird

[MaiTai]

Hi everyone, my name is Karyn and I just adopted my first bird yesterday after wanting one my whole life. I started doing research at 15 and I'm now 25, so that's 10 years of waiting! I'm dedicated to giving him the best care within my ability for the rest of his life. This is going to be a long intro, sorry for the wall of text.

My bird is Mai Tai, a pied(? not sure exactly) peach faced lovebird. He's 8 months old, semi tame and very shy about hands, but once you hold him he's very gentle with his beak. Currently he'd much rather flutter to the floor and waddle away, but he can be picked up again pretty easily. He just doesn't sit nicely, which is completely understandable.

I'm his second home. His first owner was a young guy (late teens, to early 20s) and according to the shop, he had come in with his friend and they had bought birds for each other, but this bird happened to be returned a few months later for some reason. He was also on a seed diet, so I'll be working on switching him over to pellets. I bought a bag of the seed he's been eating (a pretty good amount variety, at least) some roudybush, and nutri-berries.

His cage is (approximately) 25" long, 13" wide, and 20" tall, only measuring usable space. He seems to "fit" well in it without it being too small, but I can upgrade later. He has toys of various kinds but hasn't really done more than nibble them a bit so far. I'm assuming he either doesn't know what they're for or is still too scared. I also added 3 natural wood perches with different diameters.

He's been pretty quiet so far. He cheaped in the morning and a few times off and on so far today. He doesn't seem to be a screamer. I'm not sure what his actual personality is behind the shyness, but he's adorable and gorgeous. He doesn't mind me being next to him at my desk while he eats, drinks, preens, and naps, so I've heard that's a good sign. He also ground his beak for a while after breakfast.

I do wonder when I should actively start trying to tame and train him. I offered him spray millet I held in the cage, and while he was interested, he wasn't quite brave enough yet. I know from reading around I could either start with the slow process of target training, or flooding. I know flooding can be faster but I don't know if it could damage our relationship in the long run, and I'd have to make that scary process very worth it to him. His favorite foods right now are millet and sunflower seeds. I picked the sunflower seeds out of his food to use as bribes/treats because he eats those first. Please let me know if that's a good idea or not, and any other advice you might have or any extra info I should give.
Thank you!

Here's a photo of him in his carrier on the way home:

[Chantilly]

Hy Karyn, welcome to the forum, hi MaiTai!
I cant be of any help with lovebird dietary information, but I will say that I dont think taking out the sunflowers is a bad idea so long as she still has plentiful food, it will just give him motivation to work with you.

I understand that you may be tempted to short cut a relation ship with your bird but trust me it is NOT worth it.
Flooding is the way circus animals are trained: is traumatising and very cruel: example: Take an animal and shove an object in front of it (lets say a stick), the animal moves away from the stick because it is scared, the stick follows and starts prodding the animal. The animal soon learns that whether or not it moves away from the stick it will be forced to put up with it. The animal is so terrified it just stands there and takes the unfair treatment is given because it feels helpless and scared. You end up with a terrified bird who will eventually become awfully aggressive. It is never worth it for the animal and if it had the chance it would leave the person forever, it is a very tormenting method, the bird learns hate and it ends up broken beyond fixing.

Positive reinforcement however is building trust by rewarding good behaviour. There is no forcing the animal to do things, or taking away certain privileges, it does things you ask it to merely because it KNOWS it can trust you, and because it wants you to be a happy human. Yes, this relation takes longer to build, but it is so worth it! It is amazing to have a relationship where you and the bird have a bond that you can trust each other, read each others body language and have a happy long lasting relationship. Its a relation ship where both sides have a say in what happens, and where both the animal and the human want each others company.

When training your bird it has to be baby steps, you dont want to push him to far to fast, let him come to you when HE is ready, and show him how happy you are with his every little proggression or even a failed attempt at something, this is positive reinforcement.


Best luck, and I hope you can find some usefullness in this information. Also I hope that we will be able to help you in taming your bird, and hopefully that you will choose to use positive reinforcement as your training method.

[Wolf]

Thank you for such a detailed introduction and welcome to the forum too.

Please do not use any of the flooding tactics that you have read about. In the short term they do appear to work but in the long term the result of using these tactics is not good and the usual results are a bird that is afraid of you and becomes unhandleable because it will only avoid and or attack you. The best results are to go slow and be patient with the bird. It is normal for them to be afraid when they move into a new and unknown environment with a new human whom it has no reason to trust. If the bird were in the wild this would be a recipe for its death and it is very much aware of this fact.

As far as cage size the usual manner of determining the minimum size cage for a bird is to take its length, which in this case is about 6 inches and double it to get the total wingspan ( 12 inches) and to double this for the minimum length and width of the cage ( 24 inches) and in all cases the cage including the stand should be such that the highest perch that the bird can use is about eye level to you. With a lovebird I would not place a perch any closer to the top of the cage than 8 inches. Not this is the bare minimum size of cage and is only large enough if the bird is able to have a minimum of 4 hours daily out of cage for training, exercise, personal interaction and general exploration of its environment and just hanging out with you. If the bird does not have this amount of out of cage time then the recommended length and width of a lovebirds cage is 4 feet in both directions.

Although there are many people that do feed their lovebirds some pellets they are not generally recommended for this small of a bird. Love birds are normally fed a diet of fruits and vegetables and seeds such as canary seeds, millet, and oats. I do not have lovebirds, but I do have parrotlets, which are slightly smaller and a bit more aggressive. I feed them a fresh raw fruit, vegetable and leafy green first thing in the mornings. I follow this about 30 minutes to 1 hour later with a home cooked food that we call gloop, it consist of about 40% partially cooked whole grains, 40% frozen mixed vegetable and 20% thoroughly cooked white beans and lentils. As for the white beans the Navy beans are better than the great northern beans as the birds like them better. Then I feed them their seed mix for dinner and remove them after the bird goes to sleep at dark. I provide enough of the fresh raw produce and of the gloop so that they have enough to last until dinner. If you do elect to feed pellets it is best to limit them to feeding for their dinner and no more than 30% of their daily diet.

We will be happy to help you with your bird in any manner that we can. Pleas feel free to ask any questions that you have.

[MaiTai]

Thank you so much! Yes, I feel in my gut that positive reinforcement is a much better option and it's so good to have it confirmed. I definitely want to do right by him. I'll just take it one step at a time. He deserves that much respect at least. Honestly I already love him and want the best for him even if it takes longer.

Since he isn't hand tame yet, and I don't want him hiding under furniture where I may not be able to get him back out again, is it safe to put the cage in my bathroom (clean, birdproofed, toilet lid closed) and supervise him while he runs around and wait for him to go back to his cage? He's clipped (not my choice, he was already clipped at the place I got him from) so he won't be flying into my bathroom mirrors or anything. I'm really scared he will just hunker down under my bed or dresser and then not go back to the cage if I let him out in my room or anywhere else. I don't know if this is an irrational fear or not.

I'm definitely getting mixed messages about pellets vs seeds etc for smaller birds, but unfortunately I don't think he touches veggies either. I'll keep trying apples and peppers and I'm going to try sprouting some of his seeds this week, because at least it's something green in his diet if he'll eat them.

I'm already starting to feel like I've made a bad decision despite the research I've done. Is this normal?? I just want him to be happy even if he never really likes me much.

[Chantilly]

I honestly dont know about his being in the bathroom when out of his cage. I guess it just depends.

As for whether you made a mistake, I know that a while after I first got Shrek, I went 'oh cr*p what have I done!' I had been wanting Shrek for so long, and then once I actually got her and took her home, I wondered if I could actually make things work, and if I was capable of prioviding all her requirements. I freaked out, thought that I was wrong to have got her and that everything would go down hill, even though I already had a good bond with her. Despite my uncertainty I tried with her. Not to much longer later, I couldnt imagine life without her! She and Tilly are honestly the reason I get up each morning, they motivate so much, and they have definately changed my life.

I definately think that you will be able to make things work with MaiTai, and before you know it you will love him so much and he will love you even more. I know you might feel you made a mistake getting a parrot is a BIG commitement, for me it has always been worth it.

[liz]

Welcome to the forum. Thank you for taking in an orphan who was returned.

He does come with baggage and history that you don't know. As to thinking you made a mistake it means that you really care for him and want him to have the best possible life.

One week after bringing my first baby home I thought I had made a terrible mistake and did not know if I could care for him. It was not that he came with baggage as much as I did not know anything about babies and I was in the Philippines without my family and no one to help me figure out what the little creature was trying to tell me when he cried. (He managed to survive all my mistakes and is now 45 and taking care of me.)

My method: Put his cage where his top perch will be at your face level. They like tweeting to faces. Your scary hands will be out of sight so as not to scare him and you will be less likely to be tempted to put your hands near him. Hands are the enemy.
I don't think the bathroom is a good idea. Yes he will be out of cage but you would not stay in a bathroom for a few hours to be with him. Parrot proof the room you are in the most. Not only will you have more time with him but he will be able to watch and learn about you when you are busy and not focusing on him. You are scared of doing something wrong. He is scared of what your plans are to do with him.

The fact that you CAN pick him up is a bonus. Open his cage and let him out. He will probably just go to the top of his cage and sit there watching you. If he goes to ground let him investigate. If you parrot proofed a room he should not be able to get into trouble. Watch him close though because no one can parrot proof a room completely until you see what interest him most. When you need to pick him up and put him back or pick him up where he got into trouble try not to be above him. Do not pick him up the one handed way. Use both hands and scoop him. An overstocked breeder gave me two male cockatiels that he said were wild and that I could never be able to touch them. Just like with my baby I did a lot of things wrong. I opened their cage and let them fly. They were not good at it since they had always been in a crowded cage. When they got tired they willingly let me scoop them with both hands. I even had a chance to scratch their head while putting them back in the cage.
He is a flocker which means he would be learning from a flock what to eat and how to play. You are the only one he will be able to consider his flock when he is ready. Play with his toys. (a lot of people have had damaged key boards because they want to play with human toys too.) They are partial to toys that make noise such as a cat ball with a bell in it.
Make two plates of food that you can give a parrot. Give him one plate and you eat the other in front of him. (Rambo came to me already socialized but when I rescued Myrtle she knew nothing but fear. Rambo taught her what was good to eat and to beg for whatever I was eating. Since he was treated like a human child he did not have toys to play with and just spent his time with humans. He learned from Myrtle how to play with toys.)

Chill out the best you can. These little beings pick up on your feelings. If you are stressed and scared he will be too.

You are not alone like I was. You have us. Tell us anything you can about him and his daily progress (he will grow in personality each day). Ask us any question. I first came in the forum while searching for a rescue to be a buddy to Rambo. There is so much knowledge already in print so I read my way through it. Ask any question and it will be answered.


Again, welcome to the forum. This is a great neighborhood to be n.

[Wolf]

Hi, I am back and hopefully I can be helpful to you and your bird this time around. I am actually relieved that you are feeling a bit overwhelmed right now, it is a very good sign that you truly care about this little creature that you have taken in after wanting one for so long and after doing so much research about. Now is the time for you to take a little step back and grab yourself a couple of deep breathes and let them out slowly just savoring the feel of the air as it moves in and back out, you can even throw in an " OM" or to if you are so inclined. The point is to relax yourself a bit for your own benefit and that of your new friend. Whether you know it or not he knows when you are uptight from nerves or any other reason and it makes him nervous as well, so relax and calm yourself before going to him as it will help him to relax with you as well. It is much easier to trust someone when you can relax with them.

No matter how much study we do it is never enough as although it does give us some knowledge, that knowledge does little to prepare us for the everyday hands on experience of living with our birds, one could say that the knowledge is not truly ours until we can begin to apply it to everyday usage. Volunteering at a bird rescue helps a lot as you do get to meet other species of parrots and it gives you some hands on experience which does help a lot, but it still is not quite the same as living with your very own feathered companion.

The internet is a great place to get knowledge from, but its biggest drawback is that it contains old and outdated information right along beside the newer information and this creates an apparent conflict with what you are learning, it is helpful to have someplace to turn to that can help you sort it all out and that is where these forums come in and you still have both poorer and better forums to choose from. Some of the better ones may not fit in with your personality and some of them will. I hope that this one will meet your needs and then some. Forums are like any other group of people, sort of like schools and there are many different people with many points of view and personalities and some you will like and some you will not like.

Enough of this, let's move on to the really important stull your bird and where to begin with building a good relationship together.

It does not matter how old the bird is or how many places it has been, it is scared almost to death ( literally) when it is rehomed or even moved to a new location that it is unfamiliar with, even within the same home and there is a period of adjustment for the bird while it learns its new environment meaning its surroundings and other living creatures in that space including you. A single bird in an unfamiliar place is just a meal waiting for the taker and the bird knows this and is the reason that it is afraid and this is intensified when the bird has been clipped.

I start off with the new bird by spending the first day only taking care of its immediate needs of food and water and then spend the rest of the time that I can in the same room as the bird and except for passing by every few hours and dropping a treat in its food dish, I keep my distance and read aloud, watch TV, listen to the radio and piddleing around in the room so that the bird has the opportunity to start getting accustomed to my presence and the sound of my voice. Depending on the bird and its reaction to this I may do this for two days. I also use the birds name a lot and give it a lot of " Good bird" type of praise during this time. A birds name is very important to it as it is not only very intelligent, it is also self aware and knows who it is. Its name is just as important to it as ours is to us. Believe it or not but the parent birds name each of their young and will always use that same name for it for its entire life.

Starting on the second or third day I set aside two or three times during the day to begin my introductions to my bird. These sessions should last no more than 10 to 15 minutes each. I begin by entering the room and stopping and observe the bird and it is very important that you do not look directly at the bird while doing this as that is the way of the predator and it scares the bird. Look at the bird from the corners of your eyes and begin to talk to the bird in a soft and coaxing type of voice, using a lot of praise and using its name a lot and when you see that the bird is relaxing then start approaching the cage. Once again, do not go directly towards the bird and its cage but approach it by meandering about the room, always watching the bird. Whenever the bird shows signs of getting nervous back up a step or two and wait on the bird to relax while keeping up the talking and praise. You may make it all the way to the cage on the first try or it may take a session or even a day or two, it doesn't matter. What matters is that the bird is relaxed when you approach and does not feel crowded or pushed. This is all about fostering familiarity and trust and it is a two way street.

Now it is a great idea to come to these session prepared to offer a few treats, and generally three or four will be enough for these sessions, you can bring more if you want to. Now you have worked your way to the birds cage and it is remaining relaxed while you continue to talk to it calling it by name and praising it over and over again. The next thing is to offer the bird a treat to eat. Please do this through the bars of the cage, holding the treat in your fingers and offer the treat to the bird at whatever perch it is on, usually the highest one in the cage and wait for the bird to come and get the treat. Don't worry if at first he does not come and get the treat. If you are patient and keep talking to the bird and praising the bird it will eventually come and take the treat from your fingers. When the sessions time runs out then you will say good bye and leave promising to return later. this is important to do and it is important as well that even if the bird has not come to you for the treat that you leave it the treat in its food dish when you leave. This helps the bird to know that when you offer something to it that you are not going to take it away and this helps the bird to trust you a little more.

Ok, lets move forward in time just a bit, so now you little feathered friend has decided that it is safe to come over and take a treat from you. Are you and the bird ready for the next step? Maybe, this is a judgement call on your part. I watch the bird and look for a couple of things such as : is the bird coming towards the front of the cage when he sees me and does the bird come and gently take its treat through the bars from my fingers and eats it calmly right there and perhaps getting another bite or two? If the answer to either of these is no then the bird is not yet ready for the next step, keep doing what you have been doing until the answer to both of these questions is yes.

The next step is to be in front of the cage and do the same things as while you were offering the bird a treat through the bars. The difference is going to be that you are in front of the cage with the door wide open and when you offer the bird the treat that you do this at the entrance to the cage and that under no circumstances do you reach into the cage. It is very important that the bird calmly comes to you and calmly takes the treat from your fingers at the cage door. This is a big step in the birds trust of you and you also have to trust the bird. When the bird is coming to you at the door of the cage and calmly taking and eating the treat that you are offering then it is ready for the beginning of target training and step up on request.

Here is a link that will take you through the target training and step up :
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=227

I hope that this will help you and things go well for the two of you.

[Pajarita]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for putting the effort into learning how to care properly for him (do you know for a fact you have male?).

Now, taking him into the bathroom is an antiquated taming technique. The principle of it is that the bathroom is a strange (so the bird doesn't feel confident in it) and small (there is no place for it to get away from you) place. It's nowadays considered a flooding technique because it puts the bird in a situation where it has no choice but to accept your close presence.

When I first get a new bird, my only goal is to make said bird feel safe and comfortable so all I do is spend time in the same room he is (so he can get used to my presence) without looking at him directly (predator behavior) or getting so close that he feels threatened in any way. I simply do my thing (chores, computer, TV, etc) and just talk and sing. I also open their cages so they can come out. He is clipped so letthing him out of his cage should not be a problem as he can't fly away from you and, most likely, he is so scared that he might not even come out at all.

Now, as to diet... you are going to find that there are two trends: pellets and seeds. Personally, I don't feed pellets. I have been doing research on parrots natural diets for 20 years and have come to the conclusion that pellets are not the best dietary option for them (I can give you the reason why, if you are interested). I feed gloop and raw produce for breakfast and all day picking and a measured amount of a good quality seed mix (the larger species get nuts, too) for dinner. In my personal experience (I had a flock of around 34-35 lovebirds for years), lovebirds are very good eaters and transitioning them (I had a rescue so I got a lot of birds that only ate seed) was a breeze. You might want to do a bit of in-depth research about their natural diet (they are partial ground foragers and granivores) and make your own conclusions as to what is best for yours.

There is one thing that I feel I should tell you about lovebirds and I hope that you don't take offense at it because I am, in no way, berating or criticizing you, I am informing you because, in my personal opinion, this is essential knowledge for anybody who has a lovebird. Lovebirds are INTENSELY pair-oriented. There is a very good reason why they are called 'love' birds in English (they are called 'inseparables' in Spanish, Italian and French) and the reason is that they absolutely LOVE their mates. Mated pairs are ALWAYS together and loving each other. The males are very tender, caring and loving of their hens and never leave their side, they constantly kiss each and sleep literally leaning into each other's body. So, in my personal opinion, lovebirds should always be kept in pairs because no matter how many hours we spend with them and how much we love them, we can never give them what nature meant for them to have. People will tell you that they have a single lovebird and that he/she is happy but, in my personal opinion, Nature doesn't make that kind of mistake. Please understand that I love birds -ALL birds, mine, yours and every bird there is out there- so, to me, exhorting people to try for the best situation for every single bird out there is a matter of principle.

PS Because of the not so good light of the picture, I can't tell if your bird is a cherry face high pied or an Australian cinnamon. The 'cherry' comes from the intense red in the face versus a more subdued 'peach' hue. The high pied would show some green feathers mixed with the yellow and the Australian cinnamon would have yellow feathers with a greenish tint to them but not enough to call them green.

[MaiTai]

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement and advice. I feel a lot better and more relaxed today.

I decided to give Mai Tai the opportunity to come out of his cage if he wanted, and as a reward I left a section of spray millet and a couple of sunflower seeds on a towel on the floor for him. I sat quietly on the floor a few feet away and it took about a minute or so before he slowly worked his way out of the cage and started eating the millet, and then went back in. I was so proud! He did this two times in total and then decided to have a nap in his cage. I think I will give him this opportunity every day so he gets used to the idea that being out of cage=good things.

I do have a concern about him in that his "play" style is actually kind of neurotic looking. Like I said, he doesn't touch his toys except to use them as climbing leverage. But he will also climb the bars of his cage and do a dramatic turn and hop down. He also does this in the bottom corners of his cage, including when I'm watching him from afar. He will run across the bottom, reach a corner, put a foot up on the bar, and then turn and run back the other way. I get the impression he had no toys in his last home and was probably in an even smaller cage than what he has now. At least he gets some exercise hopping across his perches which makes me feel a tiny bit better. He doesn't do this all day thankfully, just when I assume he's trying to entertain himself. The rest of the time he walks, climbs, turns, and hops normally.

I feel conflicted because if I take him back there's no guarantee that he will go to someone better equipped than me to take care of him and help him with his problems. It hurts so much to see this tiny bird entertaining himself in this way. It's so sad! Tomorrow I'm going to try to stuff tiny bits of millet in his toys to see if he'll get the idea. He doesn't even chew his wood perches. I'm completely perplexed about this poor little guy.

And no, I'm not actually sure if he's male or not. They just said they were pretty sure. They breed and handfeed their own birds at their main store. If it's important I'll ask for DNA sexing at his "new bird" vet appointment next week. I've heard conflicting things about lovebirds needing partners, and especially with introducing birds to each other. I actually had to travel 100 miles to reach a good bird store, and I don't feel comfortable trying to find a partner for him in my local area. It's rural and the stores here are pretty bad. I'd have to travel multiple times, quarantine, etc unless it's a match right away. The only good thing is the store has a 2 year return on birds for an exchange or store credit if it doesn't work out for any reason, so I wouldn't have to purchase a second cage and make room for it if the partnering didn't work out.

If it comes down to it would it be better to find someone willing to add him to their lovebird aviary/colony? I obviously don't want to do that (I'm human so I have to admit I'd prefer to have him as a companion) and I don't have the space to do that myself, even outside. The weather here is bad with dust storms and 115+ summers.

Edit: Forgot to mention, he is yellow with small sections of green. He has one particular green spot on the back of his head/neck area that I call his freckle.

[liz]

Please do not return him to the store. That would be like putting him back in the orphanage. The more humans he has the less likely that he will relax and be a companion.

Like a few others in the forum my first bird came without warning. Wolf had one follow him home. Pajarita had a rescue and people still call her when they want to give up a bird.
Not knowing anything about birds I went to Mommy Instinct. It was not great but at that time I did not have this forum.

Wolf and Pajarita are full of knowledge as are a few other member of this forum. What they don't know they research. I do not but I run off of their knowledge. I don't know how these people have time to do all they do. They research and share with the forum or research to answer a question all the while taking care of their birds. I have full faith in them and follow their instructions.

At this point there is only one thing that I feel I should add. Don't sit quietly in the room. Even if you have to read a book out loud or watch TV and talk to it. Add his name here and there while talking. Let him get used to your presents by sight and hearing. Your voice will become the soothing thing he calls for. He will start calling you even while still scared. After all you are the only member of a flock that he will want to join as soon as he can figure out who you are and what you are about. I can learn more about a person while watching and listening as apposed to a conversation with the person.