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Hybrid Birds

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Re: Hybrid Birds

Postby Ygmu99 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:53 am

And no he doesnt have a band i baught it from a local pet shop, I feed him Mazuri small bird diet along with fresh fruits mostly banana apples and plum sometimes mango and straw berries. He also likes sun fliwer seed i only put in like 10 every two days. And for treats I use cashews.
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Re: Hybrid Birds

Postby Loriusgarrulus » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:41 am

I dont cut out seed altogether. I use Johnson and Jeffs low sunflower seed mix with dried fruit and nuts in, but limit the amount I put in. I dont know if you can get that over in the US.

I use fruit and veg in the morning when they are most hungry, then put Topps pellets in later (the one without soya and its phytoestrogens, thanks to info on here) when they have eaten the fruit and veg.
After I give them a small amount of seed.
I use shelled sunflower seeds as basic treats and tiger nuts as a big treat as that is what both my caiques go mad on, especially as there is little sunflower of it in their seed mix and no tiger nuts.
One of my caiques is parent reared, but close rung and dna checked so I know he is about 15mths.
I am doing similiar to you to hand tame him.
My other caique is 6 months and hand reared so a lot easier to work and play with.
Growing Old Disgracefully
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Re: Hybrid Birds

Postby Wolf » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:36 am

Parrots are extremely intelligent, averaging at about the level of a 4 to 6 year old human child with an emotional level of about a 2 or 3 year old, at least that is what I have read in most of the research papers relating to their intelligence. It is because of their mental and emotional levels, I believe that accounts for not just the sheer variety of their personalities but also in the complexity of their personalities. It also make it more difficult to decide some of what could be considered as right or wrong as far as how to approach their training. Just as with our human children what works best to teach one child may not have the same effect on another child, we just have to pay close attention to see what works for each one of them. I will say that I believe that in the long run that invading their cages by putting our hands inside of the cage as a means of getting them to accept us as a friend or to get them to take a treat or to step up in not very productive. For this reason, for myself, I would consider this tactic to be wrong. Still much of what you are doing, I can not consider to be wrong, just different from the way that I would approach it.

A while back I wrote an answer to another member of the forum with what I considered the best way to approach hand taming their parrot. I believe, without looking that theirs was a Quaker parrot but that does not matter so much as many of the same techniques work equally as well for many different species of parrots especially when adjust here and there to account for the differences in their environment and personalities. Here is a link to that topic describing the methods that I have successfully used for each and every one of my parrots
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15840

I hope that the way that I use will prove to be just as effective for you as it has been for every parrot that I am aware of it being used with. I hope that the reasons that I have included in the description of what I do will help you to gain more insight into the reasons that parrots behave the way that they do and point you in the right direction in learning to communicate with them effectively so that the bond that is developed can be as strong as the two of you can make it.
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Re: Hybrid Birds

Postby Pajarita » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:59 am

Psittaculas diets are 90% vegetal matter (fruits, buds, flowers, etc) and very little seed so they don't do well with pellets. Low protein (grass) seeds are OK but they should be fed only for dinner and a measured amount. You also will have to supplement vit D3.

Let me tell you something about breeding birds, knowledge about mammal breeding is useless and you can't learn it from watching videos or reading. You need not only hands-on experience but also a mentor, somebody who is willing to let you watch what they do, answers all your questions and is there for you if there is a problem. I started learning under a cousin's grandfather but I did not breed birds until years later and only after two breeding seasons as an 'apprentice' to my mentor here in USA (his name was Big Jim) - and 22 years later, I still came up against a problem that I did not know about!

If I were you, I would concentrate on making this bird my friend first. And, by the way, the putting your hand in his cage is no longer a recommended procedure for taming, it's considered flooding and a no-no. You need to get the bird to accept you and trust you without you forcing the bird. It has to be out of his own initiative for it to actually work.
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Re: Hybrid Birds

Postby Ygmu99 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:15 pm

I do give him variety of foods when I say pellets i not only mean just regular pellets i also mean some fruit flavored pellets as well as fresh food everyday. On occasions i give him some of what I eat such as bread. i learned that hand thing from a family member back in mexico i am from the state of guerrero place were wild parrots such as macaws and conures are abundant specially were we my family lives he said hats what they do over there and it works so I started doing it and I beleive it works i started by just putting the tip of my finger untill eventualy my whole hand is in his cage, he does have a very big cage it is custome made for a huge macaw so it is like a mansion to him. If i do breed him I will get and even bigger cage triple the size of the one I have now. I wish i had. Amentor but so far the only mentors are hundres of miles away from me in mexico but I usually give them a call and they tell me what to do. Again this are people who have been living with parrots their whole lives. I think I will go ahead and breed my bird, time and money wont be a problem and space wont be a problem also. My only worry was if the birds would be weak. I will get some calcium supplemnts I saw at petco for the female i buy i will also put there cages together just so they get to know eachother more and will wait a couples weeks or months till I feel the female is ready to breed and she is healthy. I will wait to put a nesting box till april when it wnt be so cold just to prevent and issues with the eggs.

P.s

Back in Mexico people dont usually breed parrots almost all parrots are taken from the nest people climb trees and take them. Which I totally disagree on doing and it is also illegal now. Also bakc over there people don't use pellets at all the will literally give the what a human eats tortillas bread seeds fruits. My grandma had an amazon she raised it and every morning she would drink coffee with her and eat bread and that thing lived for many years!! Not sure if important but thought it be cool to share thank you all for helping me out :) i appreciate it
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Re: Hybrid Birds

Postby Pajarita » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:56 am

I was born and raised in a South American country and we also have parrots but living with wild parrots doesn't mean people know about the correct husbandry. My grandmother and I used to raise baby parrots (they also used to take them from the nests back home and sell them at the farmers markets) and we fed them white bread 'miga' with milk - a TERRIBLE diet for a baby parrot! And the only reason why they survived is that these were babies taken from the wild -which I am sure was the reason your grandmother's parrot survived (but not thrived) on the diet you mention. In the wild, there is natural selection so only the strongest and healthiest animals reproduce but this doesn't happen in captivity and what we now have are very poor and weak specimens of parrots because they are the offspring of weak birds that are the offspring of weak birds that are the offspring of weak birds that are the offspring of weak birds and so on and so forth. Breeders used to use only wild-caught parrots as breeders because they realized very soon that they were the only ones that they could count on to reliably produce good babies and remain fertile for a good number of years. But that all changed back in 1992 when it became illegal to import them so nowadays, there are hardly any wildcaughts still breeding and the ones left are the largest species and none of the little ones because they all died off.

And, yes, I am sure that putting your hand in the cage was something that was recommended to you as a good method to tame a bird. We used to use that method (and other bad ones -like clipping, toweling and forcing the bird to accept our touch, putting them in a dark, small room, making them hungry and only offering food out of our hands, etc) ourselves years ago but have learned since then that none of them are any good in the long run because a parrot would only trust you if he comes to the realization that you are good on its own and not through forced inurement, the basis of flooding techniques (behaviorists warn you about not using flooding techniques and no trainer uses them any longer, read Michael's writings and you will see for yourself).

The first thing you need to learn when you deal with parrots is that, if you want the parrot to trust and love you (which is the ONLY way you can have a good relationship with them), you need to respect their wishes and that flooding brings short term results but not long term. Methods and techniques change as we learn more and more everyday. When I was a young girl (and even not that long ago), people used to rub a puppy's nose in his urine and spank him to teach him to go outside but nobody does that anymore because we learned that it doesn't work. Same thing when I went to school, the nuns would hit our fingers with a ruler if they saw us biting our nails but nobody does that anymore because it doesn't work. And I can go on and on about methods that were used for years that we now know were not effective. Parrots are smart animals which can make deductions on their own (they can count and even understand the concept of zero, they measure time both past and future, they can figure out how to open locks even when three and four steps in order are needed, etc). And they are very forgiving but they also have very long memories. And they can be sneaky and stubborn, too. So I suggest you start doing some good research on current behavioral modification techniques because what we used to do 50 years ago is now obsolete - and for good reason!
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