Trained Parrot BlogParrot Wizard Online Parrot Toy StoreThe Parrot Forum

Is my bird okay?

New to the parrot forum? Introduce yourself and your flock to us.

Re: Is my bird okay?

Postby Pajarita » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:01 pm

Well, his diet is not good. GCCs don't do well on pellets or on any free-fed protein food. They are mainly fruit eaters in the wild and need largo portions of produce every day with just low protein (I feed grass seeds) for dinner. No meat whatsoever (there is only one single species of parrots that is classified as omnivorous -meaning they eat some meat, there is another one that is in doubt but neither are GCCs). Brown poop is not really normal poop. Birds poop is always green and it's only brown when you feed pellets and little else - which is not good. There should also be transparent urine in the poop but you mention only brown feces and the white urates but this could be just a mistake on our part.

I don't know where you are physically located so I don't know if the 10 hours of sleep is what it should be happening right now (the hours they sleep varies greatly with the different seasons).

Fungus smell like cheese or yeast and, although it's not a foul odor, it should not be there. And a crop infection, even if it is candida, would not show any white spots inside the beak (you are thinking mammal, not avian) or any change in the feathers on the crop area.

I have no way of knowing if the injection or the crop needle used to aspirate his crop damaged anything but I can tell you that it was painful and terribly stressful for him -as well as useless.

PDD and candidiasis have similar symptoms at the beginning: lack of appetite, vomiting, lethargy, swollen crop. But candidiasis can be treated and usually remains in the crop while PDD affects more organs (even the brain), destroys the crop (it actually disintegrates), it gets worse and kills the bird. You need a diagnosis, my dear, and nobody can give it to you over the internet. You need to take the bird to a vet that knows what to test for, diagnose and treat because you can't take care of this by yourself. For one thing, antifungals are by prescription only (at least, here in the States) but, even if they weren't, you can't just treat for a fungal 'just in case' because, for example, if it was a crop fungal infection, you would also use ACV with the mother but, if it is PDD, that's pretty much the worst thing you can give the bird (imagine how the vinegar would act on a crop that has lesions!).
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11298
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Is my bird okay?

Postby bird001 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:15 pm

Pajarita wrote:Well, his diet is not good. GCCs don't do well on pellets or on any free-fed protein food. They are mainly fruit eaters in the wild and need largo portions of produce every day with just low protein (I feed grass seeds) for dinner. No meat whatsoever (there is only one single species of parrots that is classified as omnivorous -meaning they eat some meat, there is another one that is in doubt but neither are GCCs). Brown poop is not really normal poop. Birds poop is always green and it's only brown when you feed pellets and little else - which is not good. There should also be transparent urine in the poop but you mention only brown feces and the white urates but this could be just a mistake on our part.

I don't know where you are physically located so I don't know if the 10 hours of sleep is what it should be happening right now (the hours they sleep varies greatly with the different seasons).

Fungus smell like cheese or yeast and, although it's not a foul odor, it should not be there. And a crop infection, even if it is candida, would not show any white spots inside the beak (you are thinking mammal, not avian) or any change in the feathers on the crop area.

I have no way of knowing if the injection or the crop needle used to aspirate his crop damaged anything but I can tell you that it was painful and terribly stressful for him -as well as useless.

PDD and candidiasis have similar symptoms at the beginning: lack of appetite, vomiting, lethargy, swollen crop. But candidiasis can be treated and usually remains in the crop while PDD affects more organs (even the brain), destroys the crop (it actually disintegrates), it gets worse and kills the bird. You need a diagnosis, my dear, and nobody can give it to you over the internet. You need to take the bird to a vet that knows what to test for, diagnose and treat because you can't take care of this by yourself. For one thing, antifungals are by prescription only (at least, here in the States) but, even if they weren't, you can't just treat for a fungal 'just in case' because, for example, if it was a crop fungal infection, you would also use ACV with the mother but, if it is PDD, that's pretty much the worst thing you can give the bird (imagine how the vinegar would act on a crop that has lesions!).


Thanks for the information. I will attempt to go to an avian vet in a different city within the next two weeks. I'll post my results in case it will be helpful to someone in the future.
bird001
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: Yes

Re: Is my bird okay?

Postby Pajarita » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:39 am

I would NOT wait two weeks because, by the time you see symptoms in a bird, the bird has been sick for a loooong time and feels so wretched it can no longer fake it.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11298
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Is my bird okay?

Postby bird001 » Sun May 21, 2017 3:03 pm

I have forgotten to do an update:

I had went to a real avian vet after 2 weeks in a different city (best one I could find based on reviews).

By this time my bird was back to his normal self but I was worried based off of what I was told here.

He firstly said that the actions of the first vet that injected him with metoclopramide was quick thinking and not at all a bad idea (opposite of what I was told here).

He did a few tests and said that they couldn't find anything. I mentioned that I was told he likely has candidiasis or possibly PDD. The vet said nothing currently indicates he has either and is a huge overreaction, mentioning I should be careful on what I read on the web.

To future readers: Be careful and skeptical of what you read and what you are told on this site.
bird001
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: Yes

Re: Is my bird okay?

Postby liz » Mon May 22, 2017 4:54 am

We do not claim to be vets but come in with a problem we share what we know or what we have read about something similar.

This forum is like a neighborhood and you asked your neighbor the question. The neighbors gave you their best answers.

I take offence at the last couple lines in your last post.
User avatar
liz
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 6394
Location: Hernando FL
Number of Birds Owned: 13
Types of Birds Owned: DYH Amazon Rainbow
BF Amazon Myrtle
Cockatiels: Shadow Tammy Tommy Maggie Lacy Flutter Phoenix Jackie Andy Gimpy Louise
Flight: Yes

Re: Is my bird okay?

Postby Pajarita » Mon May 22, 2017 11:46 am

Well, I am very happy your bird is doing well. I don't know what kind of tests this avian vet did or whether he is, indeed, a certified avian vet or just somebody who treats birds without certification because neither disease can be diagnosed without specific tests.

Personally, I am not offended by your comment but you can't go by me as I have the thickest skin ever :lol: But I think it must have been very rude by 'normal people' standards if Liz felt compelled to comment on it because she is one of our kindest members and always looking for excuses to other people's poor behavior. It is as she said, though. You came here with a problem and we tried to help you as best we knew how by telling you what those symptoms could mean - we never said that the bird possibly had either disease, all we told you was that the symptoms (and the treatment that the previous vet had given it) fit with these two diseases and recommended you take it to an avian vet for a complete physical. You obviously did not take us very seriously because you waited 2 weeks before you took the bird to another vet... and I don't see how the recommendation of taking the bird to an avian vet could be regarded as something that anybody needs to be skeptical of - but that's me.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11298
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Is my bird okay?

Postby bird001 » Mon May 22, 2017 7:42 pm

Telling future readers to be skeptical should be not something to be offended by. You are making it seem as if I said to never trust anything said here. In fact, Liz, you were the most correct one here when you commented on this thread back a few months ago.

That being said, Pajarita, it is dishonest for you to say "we never said that the bird possibly had either disease" when you specifically said "Best case scenario, he has candidiasis" and "worst case, PDD".

I do not have the privilege of having a car and having money. There are no "real" bird vets where I live, just general ones. I had to go to a different city to see a certified one. Unless I walk for literally hundreds of miles, I had to wait to convince someone with a car to drive me (with a bird in the back). I took your advice as seriously as I could given my circumstances.

The vet quite literally said I completely overreacted by travelling to a different city to see his clinic. He proceeded to say that the first vet I went to who did the needle shot was a good idea and that the cytology test he performed ruled out candidiasis.

These two things are the opposite of what you said.

I realize you're a not a vet and you're trying to do good. However, you communicated to me he 100% has a disease, and that every single action performed by the first vet I went to was completely useless and was a poor decision (contrary to what 2 vets have said).

I trusted your words completely as this is my first time having a bird. In this particular case, you instilled fear and panic in me by framing it as if there's no other choice but to go to a certified avian vet as general vets have no clue what they are doing. I'm sure it wasn't your intention. I realize there are some bad vets, but for the future, it might be a better idea to not discredit every action done by a general vet.

Liz originally said "If he is back to normal you can calm down for a while". This is essentially what the avian vet told me after I visited him, among other things. For some reason, you ignored his recovery by adding "I would NOT wait two weeks because, by the time you see symptoms in a bird, the bird has been sick for a loooong time and feels so wretched it can no longer fake it", making it seem as if he will definitely die, regardless of his recovery.

To summarize, you communicated that he 100% has a disease, that everything the first vet did was useless, that his recovery meant nothing, and that he might die within 2 weeks. I took everything you said to heart as you seemed very sure, resulting me in needlessly panicking.

Which is why I caution future readers to be skeptical. I'm sure your knowledge is correct when it comes to bird diet and such, but it wasn't accurate when it came to this situation. And inciting fear isn't something you should do, whether it was the intention or not.

I'm simply advising that you be more careful with how you frame things and the things you say when it comes to these kinds of situations.

I'm 100% sure you're very knowledgeable about birds, their diets, lifestyles, possible red flags to avoid and signs of depression and such, but maybe be more cautious in general and especially when it comes to these kinds of situations. You could have simply said "you took him to a vet and he's getting better so don't worry too much, but to be safe go to a certified avian vet when you can". If you don't know something, it's completely fine, you are after all not a vet and doing this in your spare time.

Cheers.
bird001
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: Yes

Re: Is my bird okay?

Postby liz » Tue May 23, 2017 5:17 am

Bird001, my comments in a prior post was what I was thinking at the time. Things change.

I just lost two cockatiels. One of them I could not tell what killed him. They all looked good. Birds are prey animals and hide their illnesses or injuries.
We fear for your birds health as well as our babies. Most of us are 24/7 and don't get time off.
User avatar
liz
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 6394
Location: Hernando FL
Number of Birds Owned: 13
Types of Birds Owned: DYH Amazon Rainbow
BF Amazon Myrtle
Cockatiels: Shadow Tammy Tommy Maggie Lacy Flutter Phoenix Jackie Andy Gimpy Louise
Flight: Yes

Re: Is my bird okay?

Postby Pajarita » Tue May 23, 2017 2:25 pm

Well, let me tell you that I would never wait two weeks to take a sick bird to a vet so I tell people to do what I would do. I had a bird that had one single symptom: she went back to sleep after eating breakfast. That was it. Nothing else. When I saw this, I made a mental note to keep my eye on her (it was a female Senegal which called herself Cowboy) and, that evening, when I brought them dinner, she came down to eat it just like she always did so I said to myself: "Oh, OK, I was just over-reacting, she is fine!" Guess what? The following morning I found her dead. She was in perfect plumage, perfect weight, had no labored breathing, no diarrhea, no nothing but just the fact that, on her last day, her energy level was not her usual one. The necropsy result was chlamydiosis. If you look at everything written about this disease, there isn't a single mention that a bird can die from one day to the next without showing obvious symptoms - but it happened to her. So I NEVER wait! If I see one single thing wrong, I immediately take action - and that is what I recommend other people to do because I would not want anybody to have the guilt that I did when she passed on. I don't know if I could have saved her... but I would have tried real hard!

You described very troubling symptoms: vomiting, smelly poop, smelly breath, lack of appetite, deep lethargy, fluffed up plumage, polydipsia (if you do research on the net, you will find that the two diseases I mentioned have these same symptoms and that the medicine the first vet gave your bird is one used mainly with PDD but also with candidiasis). Then you said that you took him to a regular vet who called his vomiting 'regurgitating' (not a very knowledgeable person, right? because even an simple bird owner knows the difference between the two). This vet gave the bird an injection without actually doing much in terms of diagnostic tools and, although one single shot is not going to kill a bird, personally, I don't agree with doing anything that can have bad consequences (and injections do often have them to the point that breeders of racing pigeons -birds which need to have excellent muscle tone- absolutely refuse to have one of them injected with anything). I am VERY careful about my animals. I pay A LOT of attention to them and have learned a bit about which symptoms are cause for concern and which are not. The symptoms you listed are all cause for GRAVE concern and if any of my birds had them, I would run to the 24/7 emergency clinic.

Furthermore, I've never met a single avian vet that would tell you not to worry about a bird's symptoms - and I've met quite a number of them as I've kept multiple parrots since 1992! I would think that this opinion is extremely rare because, in order for them to become certified, they need to work under a certified avian vet treating birds for 6 years and anybody who has been around birds knows that by the time they show the first symptom, the bird has been sick for days and days and is already in real bad shape.

Again, I am glad your bird is doing better and I hope from the bottom of my heart that he continues doing well.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11298
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Is my bird okay?

Postby mmeager » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:44 am

Just putting in my thoughts here, is there anything in your cage, or anything your bird may have access to that may remain in his/her crop? For example, cotton, or any fibres from rope or toys, plastics from toys, or anything your bird may ingest that might remain in their crop and not be digestible? Maybe this is where the unusual smell and vomiting may be coming from?
Regurgitation does have a smell, not unpleasant, but distinctive, and I fully agree that your bird will not regurgitate or try to feed just anyone, only those that are trusted.

Please remember that members of this forum are not Avian vets, just people with extensive experience in bird ownership, people who have seen and experienced such a wide variety of issues, and that's what we call on from each other. Members will give you whatever information they possibly can to enlighten you on what may be the issue, but only an Avian vet, not a standard vet, will give you an actual diagnosis.

May I also say, I most certainly do not take sides, however I am actually with pajarita here. And I will tell you why. I had a beautiful bird who was so full of life, young, and so strong! But we lost him, he passed away within 3 weeks, and I will never ever forget that. Members of this forum spent so much of their personnel time in research to try and help my bird, but as it turned out, even the Avian vet was completely stumped, it was only discovered on autopsy that his death was unavoidable. If my current bird shows the slightest sign of being unwell, I will move mountains to get him to an Avian vet immediately, no questions asked.
User avatar
mmeager
Cockatiel
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 63
Location: Melbourne Australia
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Indian Ring Neck
Flight: Yes

PreviousNext

Return to Introductions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Parrot ForumArticles IndexTraining Step UpParrot Training BlogPoicephalus Parrot InformationParrot Wizard Store