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Learning as we go!

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Learning as we go!

Postby Willow1der » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:59 pm

Hello, I have recently (2.5 weeks ago) adopted a 20 yr old Amazon whose previous owner passed away about 12 weeks ago. I am a first time bird owner, but I have researched and read as much as I can get my eyes on.
He has slowly come out of his shell in the last 2.5 weeks. His previous owner loved him dearly, and he has been in mourning. Rico is such a sweet parrot, and we are settling in very nicely together. I do have a question. Usually in the evenings, he likes to “hold my fingers” with his claw and gnaw or beak my fingers. Sometimes he can bite quite hard. He doesn’t break the skin, and he definitely isn’t trying to get away from me, in fact, he really wants to hold on to my fingers. Unfortunately, my fingers are now bruised. Is this a regression, or perhaps he’s pushing his limits with the “new mom?” He isn’t pushing my fingers down, so I don’t think it’s hormonal. Any insight would be helpful. Thank you.
Willow1der
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 5
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Double yellow-headed Amazon
Flight: Yes

Re: Learning as we go!

Postby Pajarita » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:43 am

Welcome to the forum! After only 2.5 weeks, he is not pushing anything, he is still in his honeymoon period so, if I were you, I would not have too much physical interaction with him (has he been DNAd a male?), especially if he is being too rough (and he knows he is), DYAs are one of the 'hot three' and, if he is truly a male, you will have to be very careful of keeping him to a super strict solar schedule and feeding the right diet because they can get super aggressive and only anybody who has had a male zon attack him would understand this! These are large, powerful and completely fearless birds so, please, make sure you are starting off the right way because the honeymoon period will end and, if he is already being rough with you now, he will be even rougher.

I would also strongly urge you to take him to an avian vet for a complete physical (exam, CBC, chem panel and bile acids) because older amazons (yes, I know that 20 is not really 'old' but it is in captivity and under the wrong diet) are terribly prone to fatty liver and, unfortunately for them and us, almost everybody feeds them wrong (they require a very high moisture, very high fiber, very low protein and almost no fat diet) so a re-evaluation of his diet is in order.

One more thing, you mention 'the evenings'... you do know that they can't be exposed to artificial light after sunset, right?
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 14639
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Learning as we go!

Postby Willow1der » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:33 pm

Thanks so much for your reply! Yes, we have been to the vet. He has been DNA tested. He is terribly overweight and his diet was not ideal before, but I have changed it. I understand it must be done slowly, so he doesn’t lose weight too quickly. I’ve taken away his beloved sunflower seeds, but allow him a teaspoon of safflower seeds. He gets an 1/8 cup of Tops pellets and 4 nutriberries. Alas, no matter what fruits and veggies I put to him, he will not take anything but an apple slice, but I’ll keep trying.
And yes, when I say evenings, I mean sunset, when I am sitting with him. While I leave the door open all day, he rarely will come out of his cage. Even more rare, he steps up only every 3-4 days from his cage door. That’s a rare treat. I spend several hours with him each day working on trust, but I know it’s a slow process. The only time we are not together is when I leave the house. On top of everything else, the vet believes he is molting. His feathers are in a terrible state, and he has several pin feathers on his neck, wings and belly. He is on an omega fatty acid cocktail from the vet for his feathers and I give him a warm spray bath every few days.
Thank you for letting me know about the “hot 3.” As I am new to this, this forum is such a wonderful resource!
Willow1der
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 5
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Double yellow-headed Amazon
Flight: Yes

Re: Learning as we go!

Postby Pajarita » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:46 am

What exactly does the omega cocktail have? Because it's very easy to create an imbalance on the omegas with birds and, unless this cocktail is perfect in its balance by itself and against all the other food he is getting, it could be doing more harm than good (this is not only my personal opinion, it's actually something that Dr. Harrison found out when sick birds were being brought to him after taking omega supplements prescribed by avian vets and which he made a point of writing on his last avian medicine text). It's much better to allow the bird's body to do its work by feeding the right food than giving it supplements that require perfect balance -something VERY hard to do as the omega 6 has to be in perfect balance with the 3 and the 9 or you end up causing inflammation but because birds consume large quantities of 6 -all the grains and seeds are high in it- if you give it any 6 at all or not enough of the 3 and 9 to balance all the 6 out, you end up causing more harm than good. My birds get flax seeds, squash and broccoli mixed in their gloop every day and they regularly get other vegetarian sources (I do not use any animal sources for my birds) like dark leafy greens as well as mangoes, honeydew, oregano, etc. They also get hemp seeds but ONLY during breeding season because they are too high in protein for the rest of the year.

Now, you are feeding way too much protein for an amazon, especially one that has had a real bad diet and which, if one goes by your description of his plumage and the fact that he is overweight, he must already have liver damage and possibly fatty liver disease - did the vet do a bile acids test or just a chem panel? because chem panels are not enough for liver damage... was a full body XRay taken to see if his liver and/or heart were enlarged? Some vets believe that the regular chem panel is enough to determine liver damage but it's not. I had an orange winged amazon that had normal values until one month before he died and, although I kept on taking him to the vet because I KNEW he was sick, the vet kept on telling me that he was fine because his blood work was normal but that was because he had never done a bile acid test on him, just the chem panels). We only have a single good dietary study done on amazons, it was done on wild birds by collecting their poop and analyzing it for protein content and it was found that they eat about 17% protein ONLY when they are raising young so every single pellet out there today in the market has too much protein for amazons that don't fly miles and miles every day, that are not exposed to the elements and that are not breeding. They are also way too dry (10% max) for an animal that evolved to eat a diet of 85 to 95% moisture (and that affects both the kidneys and the liver, too). I've been doing research on parrots natural diets since 1994 when my first rescue was diagnosed with high uric acid so I've learned a bit about what's good and what's bad for them and I have reached the conclusion a long time ago that pellets are not and never will be the best dietary option for them. I feed gloop instead.

Transitioning a bird to a better diet is not hard at all, actually - and amazons are excellent eaters (I have four of them, all of them rescues and all of them came to me as seed junkies but they all eat a very good diet now - The male's age is unknown but he must be in his teens, two females are about 37 ot 38 and the other female is calculated to be around 50 - the three females all have liver malfunction due to bad diet and disease) so you should have no problem whatsoever but there are a couple of tricks to it because if you put protein food next to produce, the parrot will never eat enough of the good stuff. See, the thing is that parrots are not natural seed eaters and because protein sources are not abundant or found all the time in the wild (they are seasonal), nature gave them a craving for it so, when you put plant material that has no protein or fat in it next to a protein food (pellets, seeds, nutriberries, avicakes, nuts, etc), the parrot will always fill its crop with the protein food and eat too little of the produce - on the other hand, if you feed a natural seed eater (like a passerine, say, a canary) seeds, greens and a piece of fruit, the bird will go for the green first, the fruit second and the seeds last. So the first thing you need to do is reduce the protein intake immediately and make it so he eats more produce. In order to do this, you need to feed gloop, chop or mash in the morning. My birds don't go for the mash or the chop and, in truth, neither is as nutritious as gloop (they are made with fresh produce while gloop uses frozen which is much more nutritious than fresh) so my birds get gloop and raw produce for breakfast and all day picking (they get the produce first, when there is enough light in the sky for them to start eating and about half an hour later, they get the gloop (I warm it up in the microwave so it's barely lukewarm and I alternate what I call 'fruity' and 'spicy' flavors). Then, in the evening, they get their seeds or seed/nut mix (depends on the species). The birds with liver damage all get herbal liver and kidney cleansers and tonics both in their water and their gloop every day - it's the ONLY way of keeping a sick parrot alive and feeling well so I urge you to make sure you know exactly what your bird's situation is because I don't want to alarm you but going by what you told me, it's pretty sure your bird has liver malfunction and that he will require supplements and a special low protein diet for the rest of his life - and I am afraid that pellets and nutriberries are not going to do it for him.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 14639
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Learning as we go!

Postby Willow1der » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:12 pm

Wow, this is great information! Thanks again for taking the time to do this. I know it requires effort on your part. Ok, I have spoken to the avian vet, and while we have not had Rico’s bile acids tested or had an X-ray (we will do this on our next visit,) it looks like Rico’s liver is strained, along with his circulatory system. He has fatty deposits on his eyes from a lifetime high fat diet, and his feet are dry, scaly and flakey, most likely from poor circulation. It looks like a complete nutritional overhaul is in order.
As I mentioned, Rico came to me because his previous mom passed away from illness. She loved him very much, and did the best she could. In fact, she set up a trust for him, and had her attorney act as her proxy. He brought Rico to the bird rescue organization where I volunteer. He was so sad. Over the next few weeks, Rico decided he liked me. After much discussion and deliberation with the rescue and my family, we decided to bring Rico home and give him a life full of love and light. We are so fortunate to have the support of the rescue organization and my neighbors, who volunteer with me at the rescue. So, that’s our abridged story.
I will immediately change his eating routine and begin making gloop. I will also look into liver and organ supplements for him. If you could please share your recipes or point me in the right direction, I’d be very grateful. I already make the food for our two rescue dogs, so this will be an easy transition. We love Rico and want him to be happy and healthy. :amazon:
Willow1der
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 5
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Double yellow-headed Amazon
Flight: Yes

Re: Learning as we go!

Postby Pajarita » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:45 am

Oh, my... the white blobs in his eyes are actually cholesterol deposits and that means that his cholesterol is super high and, I am afraid that this also means advanced hepatic lipidosis so I am VERY surprised your avian vet did not do a bile acids test! I mean, I am not an avian vet but I have quite a lot of experience with liver issues (only one had cholesterol deposits in her eyes, also an amazon, a female lilac crowned - I ran a bird rescue for 6 years) I would have done that first of all because you need to know exactly where you stand with his liver. If I were you, I would not wait until the 'next visit'... well, maybe I would because vet visits are extremely stressing to birds and that's why everything should be done at one sitting (again, very surprised at your avian vet's lack of foresight).

You need to change his diet asap and eliminate anything that is high in protein and simple carbs (no white flour, no sucrose) and start supplementing him with liver cleansers and tonics ASAP. But, please, I beg you, do NOT, under any circumstances give him mammal meds (statins or any other cholesterol reducing med or allopurinol) for his cholesterol or high uric acid. You also did not say what the omega cocktail has, please do because it could be making things worse - although, in all honesty, my first recommendation would be to stop it immediately and go the natural route. I know it sounds ignorant to tell you not to medicate the bird but in my personal experience and going by what other people with birds that had the same problem have observed (we have a member here whose rescued bird died after being medicated with statins), the mammal medicines end up killing them (they are processed through the liver which is already severely compromised) while the natural route keeps them alive. Not healthy, mind you, poor Rico will never be healthy but he can have a few more good years left. Mami Zon, the one that is calculated to be over 50, came to me with advanced hepatic lipidosis over 10 years ago and she is still going strong... plucked and duck-tailed because her tail feathers never grew back but loving her girlfriend, Naida, eating, pooping, singing her TRA LA LA every morning with my CDs or radio and saying 'I love youuuu!' when I tell her to stop screaming 'HIIIIIII!' :lol:

Now, as to recipes (I'll tell you about the supplements I use below), there are several gloop recipes in the diet section so you can look them up but gloop is, basically, a dish made out of whole grains cooked al dente (because, this way, the grains are soft on the outside and infused with water -VERY good for them- but remain separate and a bit hard in the inside and this is the way parrot prefer them) and mixed with frozen or canned veggies. I use organic when necessary and non-organic if the item is on the 'clean' list (there is an independent organization that tests all the produce and puts out a list of the dirtiest -meaning chemicals- and the cleanest produce for the year. This is their site: https://www.ewg.org/foodnews/summary.php and they will be putting out the 2019 list soon) but I will state it on the list. For grains, I use aoat groats (and I recommend you use more oats than other grains as they are excellent for cleaning up cholesterol from the system), kamut, hulled barley, wheat (but you will want to use the soft white spring wheat only because it's lower in protein than the others), red and black rice. I also use black or brown lentils but you might want not to so your gloop is lower in protein. Once they are cooked, I allow them to cool and then add frozen veggies (they should be added frozen to retain their higher nutritional value): regular chopped broccoli (make sure it's the 'chopped' and not the one in pieces because it's the only way they eat it, otherwise, they pick the piece and throw it out), organic corn, organic carrots (diced), organic peas, regular sweet potatoes (they are not frozen and are either nuked in a Potato Express bag or baked in the skin -I peel it after they cool and chop into pieces but not too small or they become puree), frozen regular butternut squash (diced), regular giant white hominy (I've never been able to find it organic so I buy it in cans, I get a brand called Juanita or something like that because it's the lowest in sodium but I still rinse it thoroughly under running warm water) and regular frozen artichoke hearts (chopped - don't forget them because they are excellent liver cleansers). Then I split it into daily baggies that I freeze. Every evening, I take out one baggie and leave it outside to thaw, in the morning, I nuke it so as to take all the cold out of it and mix it with the flavor of the day (their favorites are cinammon -make sure you get the Ceylon one, not the 'regular' and use it VERY sparingly because a lot is not good for the liver- and chili but they also like ginger and 'italian' -garlic, oregano and black pepper- a lot).

You should take out all the food out of his cage once he is asleep in the evening and, after opening the door to his cage in the early morning (I am doing it at 6:30 am now but it will be needed to be done earlier and earlier as the days get longer), put out the raw produce (do one piece of fruit, one veggie and one leafy green or cruciform - I suggest you start with the 'sure things': apple, fresh corn on the cob (yes, they are expensive this time of the year but they LOVE it! and either raw broccoli or some sort of 'crunchy' green like bok choy, the very heart of the romaine, Swiss Chard because that's what they like best. Do only one of each, don't give him a choice because, if you do, you will find that he will only eat what he likes best and leave the rest. Eat with him by standing in front of his cage and taking a piece of fruit into your hand. Do not offer him any, just stand there and pretend to ignore him while you 'enjoy' your food by making yummy noises. Then, an hour later, give him his gloop. Start by making a simple grain gloop with no veggies and mix the tiniest sprinkle of budgie seed to it. He might not eat it the first day or the second but, eventually, his hunger and the fact that there are seeds in it will tempt him enough to start eating the seeds and, later, trying the grains. Once you start finding things that look like empty white skins, you will know he is eating the grains. And, once he starts with the grains, you can start adding veggies to them, one by one and gradually, always waiting for him to eat them. Start with sweet corn (they all love it and all my birds go first for the corn in the gloop - from the too to the budgies), then peas, then carrots, etc. Don't worry if there is a lot of leftover, it's fine. When you cook the grains, you are infusing them with water which makes them grow so even though they might eat a lot of gloop, it's mostly water (which is exactly how they eat in the wild) so they never gain any weight on it and yours will actually lose some - gradually and without him going hungry at all. In the evening, when the sun is halfway down to the horizon (around 4:30 pm this time of the year) turn off the ceiling lights in the room where he is kept and, about one hour later, give him his dinner - I would give him 1.5 level measuring tablespoon of budgie seed because you need to reduce his protein intake dramatically or his liver will not be able to function. The liver is one of the 'filters' of the body (the others are the kidneys) but another function is to metabolize protein so the less protein it needs to process, the better it will be for him - besides, any excess of protein eaten that is not used by the body becomes fat and ends up stored in the liver (the fatty nodules of hepatic lipidosis). He should get no protein treats whatsoever (no nuts, no seeds, no nutriberries, no nothing) but a life without any treats is a sad life so make him some nice birdy bread with whole grain flours and lots of veggies and fruits in it or some nice healthy oatmeal cookies (you can mix it with pureed squash, put little balls of it on a cookie sheet and bake them at low temperature until they are flat, nice and crispy) so he can have a little something special.

Now, as to supplements for liver. I use liquid non-alcoholic milk thistle and dandelion root extracts in the water (half a dropperful of each in about 4 or 5 oz of water - it will turn dark yellow first and brown later but they drink it without a problem) and capsules of milk thistle, dandelion root, methionine and theanine in their gloop. Now, I use two capsules of each BUT I feed a lot of birds so my gloop bowl is about 7 big laddlefuls so you will have to use much less (maybe 1/4 capsule for the first 4 weeks or so and then reduce it to 1/8 of each). Now, he is going to need a special diet and the liver supplements for the rest of his life. The liver is a noble organ, the only one that actually regenerates itself, but once they reach advanced liver malfunction (and yours has it!), you can't turn back the clock, the only thing you can do is keep on helping it function enough so the bird stays alive. Because of his high cholesterol (indicative of him having being fed animal products, I am afraid), you will need to add some red rice yeast and some coriander (capsules, not the fresh cilantro because it's too high in oxalic acid but you can also buy the seeds and grind them) to his gloop but the main thing with cholesterol is to feed high fiber and high moisture (and that's why not even Tops pellets -which I do agree are the best of the pellets out there- are any good for him).

Let me know if there is anyting that needs clarifying or elaborating.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 14639
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Learning as we go!

Postby Pajarita » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:35 am

One more thing. If the bird was found to have a lack of vit A (the vet's visual examination of his choanal papillae would determine this), he is, most likely, deficient in all vitamins and minerals so he should get a good quality (powder form that is added to soft food) multivitamin and multimineral supplement (daily dosage for three weeks and then reduce to four times a week for two weeks, then three and then two -by then, the bird should be eating a good diet with a large range of produce).
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 14639
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Learning as we go!

Postby Willow1der » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:57 pm

Fortunately, I already have most of the supplements you’ve mentioned. (We have a “food is medicine” philosophy in our home. I love the smell of freshly ground coriander and all manner of herbs and spices.) I am very grateful for the time you’ve taken to be so thorough with your recommendations, and I will keep you posted on our progress. The reason I didn’t include what was in the omega supplement from the vet was because it only says “omega fatty acid cocktail” on the bottle. I can tell you it is a prescription bottle and must be kept refrigerated, but it doesn’t have the ingredients itemized. I have left a message for the vet to call me back with that info.
I am excited and looking forward to opening a new world of food for Rico, and helping him be as healthy and happy as possible. I know his current health status isn’t ideal, but with the support of the amazing folks at the rescue, my wonderful neighbors, the vet, and the expertise of this forum, we will help him live a full and happy life. Thank you for helping me save this sweet bird’s life!
Willow1der
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 5
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Double yellow-headed Amazon
Flight: Yes

Re: Learning as we go!

Postby Pajarita » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 am

No need for thanks, my dear. I've loved and had birds my entire life (I take after my maternal grandmother who kept birds in the house even from before I was born) so any help I can give, makes me happy.

Please, discontinue the omega cocktail, it's, most likely, a mammal supplement and has omega 6 and 9 which should NEVER be given to a bird with liver disease (actually, not even to a healthy bird!). Supplementing omegas to mammals is not hard because we tend not to eat enough of any of them but birds consume A LOT of omega 6 and, normally, more than enough omega 9, it's only omega 3 that is lacking because the 'normal' seeds they eat don't have enough of it and they hardly ever consume dark leafy greens so the only one that needs to be supplemented is omega 3 (and it's best to do it through diet) ergo any 'cocktail' of them is not good as it ends up creating an even worse imbalance which, in turn, causes chronic inflammation (and this was what Dr. Harrison found - that avian vets were prescribing mammal omega supplements and messing up the birds even more than what they were before). Avian vets are actually dog and cat vets that 'apprenticed' under another avian vet and then took an exam but the text books they use to study for it (I have three) don't have a chapter on parrot nutrition, they just a very short and general one on avian nutrition which doesn't even begin to cover the subject as you have birds that are carnivores, insectivores, piscivores, herbivores, ommivores and even some that eat only nectar and pollen! It's impossible for any one person to be an expert on all these different dietary ecologies so, unless the avian vet has had multiple parrots for years and has taken his own personal time to study their natural diets, he doesn't really know much more about the subject than any other dog and cat vet. People need to understand that avian medicine is in its infancy and that most of the avian vets don't get the specialization because they are bird lovers but because they can charge more for everything. Sheesh! Most of them don't even own a single bird!

My point is not that one should not take a bird to the vet - I certainly do! But that, when it comes to diet and behavioral problems, they are not the ones that can give you the best answer for the simple reason that they don't have enough book knowledge or any expertise. The other thing that one should always double check on is the medicines prescribed because they tend to use mammal meds on birds and, although some of them are good (antibiotics, antifungals, etc), not all of them are. And for that, all you have to do is see how many of them prescribe Lupron for birds!
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 14639
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Learning as we go!

Postby Pajarita » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:42 am

One more thing. Add organic aloe vera juice (not gel) made out of the inner filet (not the whole leaf) to his water (about 1/3 aloe vera and 2/3 water). It will help to detoxify him and he needs it badly.

Now, I beg you not to take this the wrong way because it's not said to offend you or disparage anybody but I don't think you realize how VERY sick this bird is. I am talking ICU level of care because once they get cholesterol deposits in their eyes, it means that they are in the very last stages... I am talking the entire vascular system clogged with fat, enlarged heart and liver, hepatic lipidosis and most likely, ascites in the abdominal cavity and fluid around the heart. He is in real bad shape, my dear. And you need to find yourself a good avian vet because the one that gave him the exam doesn't look to have any expertise in the problem. If he had, he would have done a bile acids, taken a full body XRay to look at his heart and liver size and definitely not prescribe an omega 'cocktail'.

You need to do everything in your power to support his body functions so a super strict solar schedule with 2 hours of dawn and dusk (because a messed up endocrine system means an immune system that is compromised and not working right), good quality full spectrum lights for the middle of the day (CRI 93+ and Ktemp of 5000), a super wet diet (you need to keep him super hydrated because you can't afford his blood to become any thicker than it already is), very low protein and almost no fat whatsoever (some is needed for absorption of fat based vitamins and hormones) and daily liver and cholesterol supplements. Do not try to interact with the bird, just spend time with him - any new relationship that is kind of pushed onto him will result in stress and you need to avoid any stress whatsoever like the plague. He is touch and go, my dear, and although you will see an apparent recuperation, it's just his body rallying with good care after years and years of bad care but it doesn't really mean he is getting better. He will never get better -and I am hoping with all I got and from the bottom of my heart that I am wrong wrong wrong on this! But, going by what you described, it seems to me that he is too far gone and, in all honesty, I think the people who adopted him to you did you and him a disservice because he needs hospice care and that means somebody who has a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge with this condition - and you don't get that from reading posts or asking your vet. I wish John would come and post something here because he also adopted an amazon from the rescue he volunteers at in the same condition as yours -I will send him a pm- because you are going to need all the support you can get as well as lots and lots and lots of research on your own -you will have to super cram to get enough knowledge to keep him comfortable.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 14639
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

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