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[Michael]

She was already clipped when I got her last week. Is not good to keep her clipped so she doesn't harm herself?

That's why she's getting hurt. Since she tries to fly but then can't it takes away from control and ability to make a proper landing. Of course the bird will eventually learn how to fly clipped or not to fly at all. But this is one of the harmful byproducts of clipping. I won't deny that flighted baby parrots crash into things too as they are learning to fly but it's much less hurtful from what I've seen and they just bounce off and land some place else. I remember Truman bouncing off the ceiling and walls when he was a baby but it didn't bother him and he'd just fly some place else. He flew into a window once and only once. Quite a lesson learned. I brought him to a vet, they said he was totally fine. When they are young they are more flexible and built for a certain amount of this.

Clipping, however, poses a dilemma for the parrot. On one hand they have an instinct to fly off when spooked or scared. But on the other hand clipping doesn't permit adequate flight. Crashing is inevitable. I remember when Kili was clipped she'd get more than once she became flighted and could control it. Since she learned to fly, I don't remember the last time she crashed into anything.

Is it not good to trim the Amazon's wings as well, to keep her from flying? She is totally running into things and I'm so afraid she's going to hur herself!

See? This is exactly my point. If the bird weren't clipped, after a couple crashes it would just learn to fly around and avoid crashing, would learn to land, etc. But since it is clipped it is inevitable that it crashes when it flies. Of course clipping is a form of punishment to dissuade flying in the first place. It takes time for the parrot to learn that flight results in pain because this is unnatural (not to fly). Once the parrot gets hurt enough it will make fewer attempts to fly. But it will cause for a more aggressive/neurotic bird because the preferred way of dealing with things (flying away) is denied. Also this does not eliminate the flight reflex when startled so it will just continue getting hurt.

[MCCADS]

Okay.......now I have learned about the clipped wings. My next question: Seeing as she is afraid of my hand, yet will take a treat offered with it - when I open her cage door, she instantly gets out and sits on top of the cage - as soon as she hears me come in the door from work, she starts pacing back and forth in front of her cage door - knowing darn well that I will be letting her out. In my prior experience with Quakers, they were very cage territorial. So, with the Amazon - already fearing hands - would it be best NOT to approach her at all with my hand when she's playing on top of the cage - or should I start the 'target' training right on the top of her cage? Sorry for all the questions, I just really want her to get the best training and the best training for myself as well. She's an amazing bird!

[Michael]

Well it really depends what you are trying to do. Me, personally, I think that a parrot should be taught to the greatest extent to be a dependent household pet. Cause otherwise it's more like the owner will work as the bird's pet, I kid you not. So in order to do this, I think any pet parrot should be completely hand tame including step up, grab, and hold. It is inevitable that the bird will need to be held some day whether for grooming, stopping bleeding, safety, etc. To achieve this, the parrot should be held or required to step up as often as possible. Further, every treat or good thing should be given in response to good behavior.

The greatest opportunity to be trainer/rewarder to a parrot that many people pass up is letting them climb out of their cage on their own. This is completely pointless because coming out is often one of the most rewarding things imaginable for a cooped up parrot that spent the day in the cage while owner was away at work. By letting the parrot out of cage exclusively to step up, it will greatly reduce cage territoriality/aggression. I have never gotten bit sticking my hands in my birds cages. In fact, generally I can't keep em off of me. There's nothing Kili would like better than for me to climb inside her cage with her and spend the day by her side.

Since the bird is young, it is very important to use hands a lot but always in a good context. Hands approaching must always bring good things whether it is treats, petting, toys, or being brought some place interesting. Target training is the best way to establish a training method. Use it to desensitize your parrot to hands, people, objects, and places.

The one thing you definitely want to avoid is using step up as punishment. Do not ask your parrot to step up to receive a "timeout" nor to just put it away. This becomes a major source of biting in parrots when they become a bit older/smarter. Some day they realize that hands totally suck because they are used to put the parrot back in the cage where it doesn't want to go. Further the parrot learns that biting the hands makes them go away even if at least for a little while. So many people teach their parrot to bite them in this manner. It is super super important that going back into the cage be so rewarding that the parrot is grateful for your hands putting it away rather than wanting to attack them or fly away from them. The way this is done is food management. With a young bird it doesn't (and shouldn't) be anything extreme. Could just be a matter of withholding food for a few hours and then putting it away to a fresh meal in the cage. It could be putting the bird into cage along with a new toy to keep it busy. But fact is, if you keep putting the parrot away without something awesome to make up for it, it's only a matter of time before it learns to bite to avoid being put away.

Definitely read the taming article. This one should answer some questions about good practices as well.

[MCCADS]

I almost know for a fact I will get bitten if I stick my hand in her cage. So, please give me directions as to what I should do. You are saying not to just open the cage door and let her out on her own - I should open the cage and reach in and get her out? She does know step up (has done it a couple of times on a perch) - but gets very angry when asked to do so. I'm getting confused here as to where I should start and with what step. Can I use a glove to reach in and get her out? If you an offer what step I should take first, and how I should go about doing it - I would greatly appreciate it.

[Michael]

Oh, well I'm talking about step up out of/into cage as a long term approach. I didn't realize the bird is biting you when trying to come out. You have several options depending on just how bad the bird is.

First of all, it could be that you are just biasing against the bird thinking it will bite and for that reason it will. Depending on the situation, sometimes a bit more confidence goes a long way. But it could be an aggressive bird. I can't know. That is for you to determine. You have two options to begin training. Either:

Take the bird out whatever way you're comfortable and get it away from cage into a training area

or

Practice target training in the cage.

Since you say the bird is good once out of the cage, I say get it out. Use a glove, perch, whatever. Get it out and then work on training away from cage. I'll make a pitch and suggest a set of Parrot Training Perches because they are the easiest surface to train on. But it can be something else. Then follow the taming guide.

Seriously, read the taming guide, watch the videos, think about it, give it a try... then if you have questions let me know. Here's another one I wrote earlier but it could be helpful in case something was left out in the other:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=227

[MCCADS]

I guess I have read SO much about how damaging these birds bites can be, that I'm thinking more negatively that if I approach her with my hand, she will bite me. She growls and opens her beak if you get too close too fast - and I'm assuming that's her way of warning me not to proceed. She has not bitten me yet, but that's because I haven't allowed her the opportunity. Had a scare a few days ago - she was spooked off her cage by one of my pups - and she actually flew and landed right on my chest - and we just sat there - staring at each other - like 'oh no - NOW what do we do'? She eventually flew back to her cage. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, I should not try any training with her while she is on top of her cage - but take her in a different area and work with her? If I ask her to step up while on top of the cage, she steps up - but then flies off the perch - so my only bet would most likely be to towel her and bring her into a different room? Do not do the 'target' training while on top of the cage? UGH!

[MCCADS]

Plus you are saying do "NOT" allow her to come out of her cage on her own?

[Michael]

If the bird WANTS to come out of the cage, make it step up for it. If the bird DOESN'T WANT to come out and is indicating this by biting, then forget this until it learns to WANT to come out. You can do target training in the cage or on top of the cage. But if you can get the bird onto a training perch out of sight of the cage, you will have quicker/better progress. The articles/videos discuss some methods of handling an untame parrot. Since you are scared of the bird, we can't really know if it genuinely is aggressive or if you are too scared to find out. This is ok. Stick to the target training method. It will build up the bird's confidence as much as your own confidence at a slow/steady pace. That is why this is such a fantastic method to use.

You said it's just a 5 month old Amazon. First off baby parrots tend not to bite and even when they do it doesn't hurt that much, especially if you know how to take a bite. When I handle birds like that at my bird store, I just stick my finger in their beak and they can feel it and such but they can't hurt me cause they lose their leverage. Or I turn the back of my hand so there is no skin to grab. If you're not scared of the bird, unless it is viciously aggressive, chances are it's not a big deal. But you can't go wrong taking it slow and following target training method.

[MCCADS]

You are AWESOME! Thank you for your patience with me and your understanding of what I'm trying to accomplish. I do not want to be afraid of the bird, but heard these guys can cause a need for stitches! She has clamped down on skin and left an indentation, but hasn't been aggressively coming at anyone to actually 'attack' them. I will read through all the info you sent me, and hopefully make some sort of progress this weekend. If not, you'll see me back on here for more advice! Thank you AGAIN!!!!!

[liz]

Myrtle and Rambo both growl when they don't want to be bothered. And they do open their mouths to threaten. I have never been bitten.

Rambo has clamped down on my finger and made a ridge but did not break skin when I wanted him to do what he didn't want to do.

Myrtle clamped down on my finger when I was helping her get off the fly paper. She made a ridge but did not break skin. She was trying to use my as leverage.

I pick her up with my hands - talk to her about 30 seconds and then put her back where she was. She fusses when I pick her up but I am teaching her that I just want a little of her time. She is in her "terrible twos".

When Myrtle comes to me she will sit on my shoulder and preen my hair and the fuzz on my cheek. She has even preened my eye lashes. She has put her beak on my nose and not clamped.

It sounds like "the only thing you have to fear is fear alone".

DON'T REACT IF YOU DO GET BIT. That means she won and will do it again.