Howdy - I'm new here and need help.

[jrz2az]

Hello out there! I have spent a bit of time searching the forums re aggressive parrots and biting, and don't seem to find exactly my situation, so I'm hoping if I explain I can get some advice. Background first: I was never a bird person; I had bird-sat for a friend many years ago and that was the extent of my bird-ness. My fiance's mother passed away and we inherited her 2 bonded male (so we are told) Amazons : an orange wing named Myron , approx 5 yrs old; and Anakin, a blue front, same approx age. We were going to sell them as I did not think I was up to caring for 2 additional pets. (We have no children, but do have 3 dogs, and I work full time from home.) I got online and read up on feeding and care, and actually got quite attached to the Amazons quickly and would not sell them. They have a limited vocabulary, but are entertaining, they are not friendly in that you cannot handle them, but they will StepUp if needing to be rescued. I have been bitten - very badly - by each of them in different situations, and just blame myself and try not to let them bit me and life goes on. I do my best to take good care of them, although I do admit I don't have the time to spend with them as I probably should. They are in the living room so they are amongst the activity and have toys and eachother. I was initially going to ask about the random screaming of both birds, and what that might mean, but I believe it to be a call for attention and it does stop when the cage is covered with a sheet. Oh, we have had the Amazons now for approximately 2.5 yrs.

Now, less than 2 months ago, weeks after my fiance's sister died, we happened upon an African Grey for sale to a good home in a local bird store. My fiance "HAD" to have him, so I agreed and now we have Izzy . He is in a separate cage, and seems to have been an only bird previously because he entertains himself quite nicely (with toys and singing etc). He is about 7 yrs old, quite friendly and will step up and sit with us, he has bitten but never hard at all (more like a nibble) and I am sure this is only testing us. He has shown no signs of aggression at all. Of course we spend a bit more time with the new bird, because (a) he allows us to, (b) we want him to get to know us, and (c) he's shiny and new.

I understand that there will be a period of adjustment for all 3 birds to live in the same room (their cages are not right next to eachother but within sight). However, Anakin (blue front Amazon) has become much more aggressive and screams often, even when covered. I have tried giving the Amazons more attention and not letting them see when we give the Grey attention (not trying to rub it in their face that the new bird is a favorite). My problem is that whenever I get near the cage, Anakin tries to attack me, and has now bitten me (drawing blood, nearly breaking my finger about 2 weeks ago, and I have not gone INSIDE the cage ) several times - while moving the cage, giving them food, whenever my flesh is within reach. I admit I do get quite upset and yell at him when he does this, but my gosh he is STRONG and it HURTS. And it also hurts my feelings, as I care for the birds and want them to like me. The orange wing Amazon has not bitten lately, and has let me scratch his head like he used to, but he seems somewhat bullied by Anakin. Anakin prances around their cage, eyes flared, tail fanned out, etc., showing that he is the dominant bird, I suppose he feels dominant over me too.

I spoke to the bird store owner about the situation, and he suggested giving them more time to adjust and to separate them more until there is acceptance. He also commented on Anakin's aggressiveness when he clipped their wings (the day he delivered Izzy).

What can I do to stop this horrible aggressiveness? I am currently bleeding (into a bandage) because he took a chunk out of my finger as I was moving the cage to clean beneath it this afternoon. Is it my fault for lack of attention, go ahead and scold me, keeping in mind that I inherited the Amazons, and had no plans on being a bird mom. And I cannot do the training with a stick and clicker that I have read about, bc this bird is just so nasty and just plain dangerous. I cannot even let them out of the cage anymore, as we often used to let them sit on top of the cage for awhile every day or two, but now the aggression is too dangerous. And if one (even Myron) were to get off the cage and I would need to get one to Step Up, I am sure that would result in a horrible bite.

Is it time to find the Amazons a new home? I don't like being afraid of my own pet. I would love for the birds to calm down and be (relatively) nice like they used to. The Amazons are not nearly as vocal now that the Grey is here, by the way. I don't see how we could sell the Amazons anyway, telling prospective new owners: no, you can't hold or pet them, and by the way they may bite your fingers off? My fiance's mother LOVED the Amazons and would be crushed if she knew we could not keep them, but if it's best for them to say goodbye, then that's what we will find a way to do. Or if there are suggestions so that I can have happy birds and keep ten fingers, I am willing to try. If any of the birds have to go, it would be the Amazons and we know we need to keep them together; we are very happy with Izzy.

I know this is a lot of info all at once, and I appreciate any suggestions or even just thanks for taking the time to read my story.

[dohcsvt]

Keep the bird cages, where the birds can hear each other, but not see each other, and then slowly allow them to see each other for longer and longer periods. Also, I understand that you are very busy, but these guys require daily attention and that may be the root of your problem. As they are housed together they have bonded and don't really need you, if you were to spend more time with them it may improve. I am by no means an expert, so hopefully someone else can give you some better advice. I wish you the best of luck with your fids.

[liz]

Hello out there! I have spent a bit of time searching the forums re aggressive parrots and biting, and don't seem to find exactly my situation, so I'm hoping if I explain I can get some advice. Background first: I was never a bird person; I had bird-sat for a friend many years ago and that was the extent of my bird-ness. My fiance's mother passed away and we inherited her 2 bonded male (so we are told) Amazons : an orange wing named Myron , approx 5 yrs old; and Anakin, a blue front, same approx age. We were going to sell them as I did not think I was up to caring for 2 additional pets. (We have no children, but do have 3 dogs, and I work full time from home.) I got online and read up on feeding and care, and actually got quite attached to the Amazons quickly and would not sell them. They have a limited vocabulary, but are entertaining, they are not friendly in that you cannot handle them, but they will StepUp if needing to be rescued. I have been bitten - very badly - by each of them in different situations, and just blame myself and try not to let them bit me and life goes on. I do my best to take good care of them, although I do admit I don't have the time to spend with them as I probably should. They are in the living room so they are amongst the activity and have toys and eachother. I was initially going to ask about the random screaming of both birds, and what that might mean, but I believe it to be a call for attention and it does stop when the cage is covered with a sheet. Oh, we have had the Amazons now for approximately 2.5 yrs.

Now, less than 2 months ago, weeks after my fiance's sister died, we happened upon an African Grey for sale to a good home in a local bird store. My fiance "HAD" to have him, so I agreed and now we have Izzy . He is in a separate cage, and seems to have been an only bird previously because he entertains himself quite nicely (with toys and singing etc). He is about 7 yrs old, quite friendly and will step up and sit with us, he has bitten but never hard at all (more like a nibble) and I am sure this is only testing us. He has shown no signs of aggression at all. Of course we spend a bit more time with the new bird, because (a) he allows us to, (b) we want him to get to know us, and (c) he's shiny and new.

I understand that there will be a period of adjustment for all 3 birds to live in the same room (their cages are not right next to eachother but within sight). However, Anakin (blue front Amazon) has become much more aggressive and screams often, even when covered. I have tried giving the Amazons more attention and not letting them see when we give the Grey attention (not trying to rub it in their face that the new bird is a favorite). My problem is that whenever I get near the cage, Anakin tries to attack me, and has now bitten me (drawing blood, nearly breaking my finger about 2 weeks ago, and I have not gone INSIDE the cage ) several times - while moving the cage, giving them food, whenever my flesh is within reach. I admit I do get quite upset and yell at him when he does this, but my gosh he is STRONG and it HURTS. And it also hurts my feelings, as I care for the birds and want them to like me. The orange wing Amazon has not bitten lately, and has let me scratch his head like he used to, but he seems somewhat bullied by Anakin. Anakin prances around their cage, eyes flared, tail fanned out, etc., showing that he is the dominant bird, I suppose he feels dominant over me too.

I spoke to the bird store owner about the situation, and he suggested giving them more time to adjust and to separate them more until there is acceptance. He also commented on Anakin's aggressiveness when he clipped their wings (the day he delivered Izzy).

What can I do to stop this horrible aggressiveness? I am currently bleeding (into a bandage) because he took a chunk out of my finger as I was moving the cage to clean beneath it this afternoon. Is it my fault for lack of attention, go ahead and scold me, keeping in mind that I inherited the Amazons, and had no plans on being a bird mom. And I cannot do the training with a stick and clicker that I have read about, bc this bird is just so nasty and just plain dangerous. I cannot even let them out of the cage anymore, as we often used to let them sit on top of the cage for awhile every day or two, but now the aggression is too dangerous. And if one (even Myron) were to get off the cage and I would need to get one to Step Up, I am sure that would result in a horrible bite.

Is it time to find the Amazons a new home? I don't like being afraid of my own pet. I would love for the birds to calm down and be (relatively) nice like they used to. The Amazons are not nearly as vocal now that the Grey is here, by the way. I don't see how we could sell the Amazons anyway, telling prospective new owners: no, you can't hold or pet them, and by the way they may bite your fingers off? My fiance's mother LOVED the Amazons and would be crushed if she knew we could not keep them, but if it's best for them to say goodbye, then that's what we will find a way to do. Or if there are suggestions so that I can have happy birds and keep ten fingers, I am willing to try. If any of the birds have to go, it would be the Amazons and we know we need to keep them together; we are very happy with Izzy.

I know this is a lot of info all at once, and I appreciate any suggestions or even just thanks for taking the time to read my story.

The Amazons were clipped the day Izzy came. The Amazons are now insecure because of it. From my experience, African Greys are the dominant of the two species. I think the Amazons are now insecure and afraid.

Put Izzy out of their sight. Let the Amazons out of their cage to have a little more freedom. You can always put something really good in their cage to make them go back in.

Is their cage big enough for two Amazons?
Do you show fear when you get bit?
It takes courage but when you get bit don't react. Cover it's head with your other hand so it cannot see and it will let go.

My Amazons don't bite but I learned this with my cockatiels and it works. They finally give up biting.

Keep us informed of your progress and welcome to the forum.

[jrz2az]

Thanks for the replies! I do show fear (more like extreme pain and surprise) when bit because the bites have been SO bad. (I was also bit a few times prior to Izzy's arrival) I've also been bit through the cage, so I haven't had access to their head. The one bite was so bad and Anakin wasn't letting go of my finger that I was able to reach one of his tail feathers and pull on it so he'd let go. That was about 2 wks ago, I thought he was going to take my finger right off. He's so strong. I have a new toy for them and right now I'm afraid to put it in the cage.

Izzy has nibbled, and I know not to pull away when he does (he doesn't hurt at all) and I've told him No Bite. I think that's him getting to know us and testing.

Yesterday I turned the Amazons' cage and moved Izzy a bit so that I don't think they can see eachother, although it depends where Anakin is in the cage. Hopefully that will help. Now that the weather is better (Phoenix AZ) I can bring the Amazons outside onto the patio during the day for awhile (only when I am home, which is usually). I won't let them out of the cage unless I'm outside with them obviously but we can try doing that for awhile. Myron (the sweeter Amazon) is being a bit more vocal like his old self in the last few days, but Anakin has not spoken other than an occasional "Hi" and screaming, and this purr (?) that they make. I miss his little conversations about what a good boy and pretty bird he is, and asking for kisses.

There was a lot of screaming (Anakin) yesterday, and there was some vocal interaction between them ( and ) before and during this. Izzy is a bit bigger and obviously more vocal than the Amazons, he tells them to Stop It when they're yelling, and makes a howling noise sometimes which sounds like he probably is imitating one of my dogs howls from when we aren't home. I don't know how to tell if he is dominant over the Amazons, and I won't let them near eachother at this point.

I do love all three birds and hope this works out. The Amazons are right at the bottom of the stairs in the living room, I talk to them every time I walk by and spend some time talking and singing to all of them every day. I think it will be a few days before I am comfortable letting the Amazons out again, just because of the attack-bird stance that they take when I walk by. So far this morning things seem to be somewhat calmer.

I don't know how to tell if the Amazon cage is big enough? But this is the cage they came to us in and seem to be fine in there. They have several perches and always a toy, 2 big food bowls and a water bowl (it's quite bigger than the Grey's cage). They snuggle with and groom eachother, but also have space to climb around, hang upside down etc. I think it's fine.

Again, thanks for the views and replies, and any other advice is very welcomed.

[liz]

In general I believe any Grey is dominant over any Amazon.

Do the Amazons come after you and attach and bite while they are out? Usually a bite near the cage is a defense of it's space which is all it thinks it owns.

If they don't come after you - let them out to gain confidence. You can always get them back in with a treat put in the cage. I find letting them out creates a better bond than just being a caged animal.

Boxers are docile by nature but my daughter has a male that scares me. She keeps him in a dog lot (I hate the confinement). If I have to be the one to feed him he will charge the gate and I will have to fight to get it latched. One day after feeding I got brave and went out and just flipped the door open. A big puppy came out and wanted to romp with me in the yard.

Atr a few times of doing this he now lets me pet him when I put food in.

[jrz2az]

The Amazons do sometimes come after us while out of the cage, they sit on top of it, and when we walk by they will sometimes try to come after us but have not achieved a bite while out. They back off when we stand there out of their reach. It'll be a few days before I am comfortable enough to let them out again but will try it.

I've been standing by the cage talking to them as much as I can and there is still some attack stance and attempts. I had a long (friendly) talk with Anakin yesterday about how biting is bad and how it hurt and hurt my feelings because I love him and all the birds and want everyone to be happy and get along. He sat quietly listening to me.

Anakin's screaming seems to be lessening, he hasn't done it early in the morning as he had been. I think it has to do with the Gray getting used to our schedule, as I think we sleep a little bit later than his previous parents. Izzy used to wake up and start whistling and chatting as soon as it was light out, which would then wake up the Amazons and we'd have a scream-fest (all of them are covered). This has gotten better over the last week or so.

I guess I'll just keep plugging along, doing my best with my zoo. (they're screaming now, but it's time for food... and Izzy said Stop It lol) thanks again for the advice

[jrz2az]

PS. a small success, I think. Just fed Anakin a piece of pear thru the cage, no biting or attacking. And then was able to take out the old toy and put in the new one without incident. I kind of had to talk him away from me and hold the new toy in front of him (calmly) so he could bite it instead of me, but he let me in the cage. I think this is good.

[liz]

Wonderful. Keep on keepin on.

Remember - when you hear an argument between two people - the loud one is loosing. If you react to aggresion - you are loosing which makes him the winner.

[jrz2az]

Thanks Liz. I'm going to try my best to make this work. I saw another post with pics in it,and since this is introduction category, I'll try to insert a pic or two of my bird kids.

Izzy


Anakin is the Blue Front (more yellow) and Myron is the Orange Wing (more lavender face)




Proud to have figured out how to insert pictures.

[pchela]

I wouldn't say the Grey is going to be dominant over the Amazons simply because he's a Grey. My Grey is the most submissive of the bunch and allows herself to be bullied by my Senegal. I think the best advice you got was to start them out in different rooms where they can hear each other and gradually reintroduce them. Birds can be quite sensitive to change and these 3 have had huge changes very quickly so of course it will take some time for them to adjust. Also, check out the positive reinforcement training section of the forum. PR training can go a long way towards building good relationships with your birds!