need help and tips please :(

[dvdsy]

I am really new to parrots , but I did some research saying cockatiel are easy to tame but some don't but ,so... I bought a pair from a petshop, and I know I could be dumb but... I forgot how old they are....so I'm sorry but the petshop owner said they were raised by their bird parents.....so hope it could help me with this problems...

But I got individual problem each of them and a problem as them together...

Female Cockatiel problem:
the 1st day and 2nd day where kinda tough , cause she wouldn't eat from my palm , and even afraid of millet so I always catch her wings and neck to bring her out the cage and tame her , but what is weird is she is so behaved in the stand but would somehow run to the edge opposite of mine, but here comes 3rd day , as usualy she bites when i try to get her out but it doesn't hurt much , so i teach her step up , and she can , and she even wouldn't fly away if i put her in my shoulder and bring her to bigger room , but as immediately seeing the cage , she would try to fly to the cage so i run to the bathroom before she could , so i continued , she doesn't bite me when I try to pat her in the head but if she had enough she would hiss or let her head lower away from my hand and open the beak a little , so I know , and she isn't afraid of eating from my hand also which is wow for me , and even drank the water i have in my palm.... but as soon as I put her back to the cage , she would start running away from my hand again just like usual like I am a total stranger:( why is her attitude different from the cage from the stand.....

male cockatiel problem:
from 1st to 3rd day which is today.... I never made progress as much as to the female.... he would ALWAYS bite my fingers hard...my poor fingers so red....so whenever i am training him , he would run away , and go to a corner or if there is something in his way, he would bite it so hard and even he is in the stand , since the stand is made up of small branch and tied with copper wire in the middle, he would go there and bite it and the small branch is really pilled off... I can see he really bite so hard... which at this moment I am afraid what to do anymore, and when he runs away , and when I try to use a perch to put him back to the stand , he wouldn't budge an inch or what, and even bite the perch hard , and would back off a little , i tried using millet to lure it to the perch but it took me a long long while to bring him back even I let him calm down for few minutes before doing that....and whenever I have him in the perch and goona train him to step up in my gloved up fingers so his bite won't hurt , he would open his wings and ready to fly back to the stand and when I try to pat it , he bites, even i use distractions ,it doesnt help.... even i do it slowly like from his comfort zone and give him treat and near a bit and treat still won't work , after taking treats from me he would face my other finger that is ready to pat his back please help I am really getting tired..... he is so different from the female but i wont give up just give me tips what to do....

when they are together problem:
so they live inside same cage, which is somehow small , but I am trying to make a cage that is double it , but for now , whenever I put them in 1 stand since that is the only one I have made , the female would bite the male when the male bites the copper wire. sometimes when they are inside the cage, both of them would bite each other , is this normal between them? please help
sorry for all the question... cause I don't know what to do anymore

oh by the way ,I move their cage whenever I will start training them so they won't fly away, but it is just a short distance dunno if that has something to do with it.....and if there is something you dont understand please tell me, cause I really need all the help I could help

[marie83]

I struggled to understand your message to be honest but I think you are taking things too fast. The birds need time to settle in first, once settled in then you can begin taming. They are only biting because they are frightened and trying to defend themselves at this point.

I would also rethink your approach to taming. At the moment you are giving them no choice by grabbing them so they feel forced in to biting. There are kinder methods called positive reinforcement that will help you tame your birds. It might take quite a long time depending on their ages but it will work eventually, because you have taken your time the end results will be even better as the birds will have more trust in you.

I thoroughly recommend you read this blog http://trainedparrot.com/sitemap.php it will help you learn a lot. In the meantime don't try to get your birds out just yet, just sit outside the cage and talk to them so they learn not to fear you. You can offer treats through the bars,they may not take them to start off with, but they will eventually particularly if your birds are older and you can use food management methods.

If you have any more questions please come back and ask, between the forum members we can all help you work through this.

[dvdsy]

thanks so much
I really don't know if I am doing the right thing or not..... cause with all these stuff posted in youtube or articles i found in google >< I will start doing those by now , sorry I did the wrong thing.... oh well....

I just have one question is..... my family wants them outside during morning(cause they think they are very dirty but I wash the dirt they did inside though....) and during the night I put them back inside cause I feel they are gonna catch cold outside.... the cage is movable also...or I could just cover the whole cage with a big towel? and open a small space for them to see outside? (sorry I have many questions I jsut wanna make sure I can make them happy from now on...)

[Pajarita]

You are definitely rushing things terribly and stressing out those poor birds. Please stop the training immediately and give them time to settle down and get used to their new cage, environment, people, schedule, etc. This usually takes about two months, depending on the steadiness of the schedule/routine, environment, etc. Birds are NOT dogs, they don't need to learn tricks to make us or them happy, we should appreciate them for what they are. And I hope you are putting water and food in the cage and not just offering it on your hand, that would be truly a terrible thing to do!

Birds cannot go outside, regardless of the weather UNLESS you are VERY knowledgeable in avian medicine, they are kept in an aviary and are in their country of origin (they can catch parasites their immune system is not 'wired' to fight off and die).

[cml]

Birds cannot go outside, regardless of the weather UNLESS you are VERY knowledgeable in avian medicine, they are kept in an aviary and are in their country of origin (they can catch parasites their immune system is not 'wired' to fight off and die).

Say what?
Are you being serious here?

Taking parrots outside for the benefits of sunshine and for their entertainment is hugely popular, and your statement says that you shouldnt. Birds benefit from being outside as far as I know, be it in a harness or a travel cage. A LOT of people on these forums take their birds outside, and Michael is a strong supporter of it.

You run the risk of parasites indoors as well, there's the risk of bad food, there's the risk of fungi spores in the air and/or on food (which can lead to aspergillios), there's the risk of metal poisoning, there's the risk of parrots flying into stuff etc etc.

My point is, there is risk no matter what you do. You need to strive to minimize the risks, but you also need to let your parrots live. You cant keep them in a sterilized enviroment getting nutrition drip.

Do you have any research to show how common it is for a bird to catch parasites when being outdoors, or are you speaking from your own point of view?

[pennyandrocky]

you might want to get a separate cage for each. the problem with getting 2 at the same time is they don't really have any use for you so bonding becomes more difficult since they have another bird to bond with. have one out at a time when training that way they are focused on you and not the other bird.

[dvdsy]

i see , i guess i will just put them outside now , hmmm just wondering if it is necessary to separate them? or is it ok if they stay together , i am just new to it , so i am sorry i did those , so i will take it slowly , and i think i will just cover the cage in big towels during night for them to feel less stress

[Cockatielsongs]

i see , i guess i will just put them outside now , hmmm just wondering if it is necessary to separate them? or is it ok if they stay together , i am just new to it , so i am sorry i did those , so i will take it slowly , and i think i will just cover the cage in big towels during night for them to feel less stress

Do not house the cockatiels outside unless you have a secure outdoor aviary that will protect the birds from extreme weather and predators such as hawks, stray cats and other wild birds. Place the cage in a corner where they can observe you within their comfort zone. You could use a towel to cover all sides except the front to offer them a feeling of safety and security. Leave them alone for a week maybe to let them settle down and adjust in their new environment. If the cockatiels are attacking each other its best to house them separately, besides, they will probably mate and unless you want little baby cockatiels you should house them separately.

So step 1: Give them at least a week to settle down and adjust
Step 2: Sit near the cage and eat in front of them, read to them, sing to them, talk to them, work in front of them. The point is to allow them to get use to your presence.
Step 3: Once and only when BOTH birds are calm when you are near them offer millet through the bars of the cage. Do not stick your hand in the cage just feed them through the bars until they happily accept food from your hand
Step 4: When they are comfortable with eating from your hand through the bars slowly try to feed them with your hand in the cage. If they open their beak to bite, dont yank your hand away, freeze for a few seconds before very slowly removing your hand.

The key is to be patient, rushing into things will simply make them frightened of you and want to bite, take things slowly. Good luck!

[Pajarita]

Birds cannot go outside, regardless of the weather UNLESS you are VERY knowledgeable in avian medicine, they are kept in an aviary and are in their country of origin (they can catch parasites their immune system is not 'wired' to fight off and die).

Say what?
Are you being serious here?

Taking parrots outside for the benefits of sunshine and for their entertainment is hugely popular, and your statement says that you shouldnt. Birds benefit from being outside as far as I know, be it in a harness or a travel cage. A LOT of people on these forums take their birds outside, and Michael is a strong supporter of it.

You run the risk of parasites indoors as well, there's the risk of bad food, there's the risk of fungi spores in the air and/or on food (which can lead to aspergillios), there's the risk of metal poisoning, there's the risk of parrots flying into stuff etc etc.

My point is, there is risk no matter what you do. You need to strive to minimize the risks, but you also need to let your parrots live. You cant keep them in a sterilized enviroment getting nutrition drip.

Do you have any research to show how common it is for a bird to catch parasites when being outdoors, or are you speaking from your own point of view?

Yes, I am been serious. I know that taking parrots outside has become a fad but it's only safe if you know what to look for in terms of contagion or infestation. You don't need statistics to tell you about the West Nile virus, salmonellosis, trichomoniasis, avian pox and airborne parasites (like air sac mites which kill the bird). People that keep birds outside or take them outside regularly need to test them for parasites and/or treat them periodically and most people not only do not do this but miss early symptoms every time. I know of two birds that died because of this. When you talk about pet parrots, you are not talking about birds that are the product of natural selection, living in their natural environment (in which they had hundreds of thousands of year to adapt to the local pathogens), you are talking about a weak copy of the wild species born of, most likely, stressed out and half-depleted weak birds which were born of stressed-out, half-depleted weak birds living in captivity, without flying, on an unnatural diet, etc. etc.

As to having the same dangers indoors, sorry but no. There should be no parasites or danger of contagion of wild bird diseases indoors and aspergillosis only happens when the bird is stressed out and has a depressed immune system or when the bird is exposed to high levels of aspergillus during a prolonged period of time - otherwise, they can fight it off with no problem.

Besides, she is talking about leaving them outside, without supervision, all morning long because they 'mess' - NOT a good idea no matter how you look at it.

Sunshine is wonderful for birds but putting them outside where they are exposed to dangers without knowing how to 'read' the signs is not advisable. It's much safer to put them next to an open window with a good SS screen on it.

[cml]

I really dont want to start an argument, but I need to reply to quite a bit here:

As to having the same dangers indoors, sorry but no. There should be no parasites or danger of contagion of wild bird diseases indoors and aspergillosis only happens when the bird is stressed out and has a depressed immune system or when the bird is exposed to high levels of aspergillus during a prolonged period of time - otherwise, they can fight it off with no problem.

Not the same dangers (well some), but other dangers.

Sunshine is wonderful for birds but putting them outside where they are exposed to dangers without knowing how to 'read' the signs is not advisable. It's much safer to put them next to an open window with a good SS screen on it.

I am sorry to tell you, but if you have an open window with a screen as a protection you run the same risks as if you take them outside. Spores, bacteria etc are small enough to pass right through even a fine mesh screen. If you keep the window closed, the sunshine isnt going to do anything good.

As to having the same dangers indoors, sorry but no. There should be no parasites or danger of contagion of wild bird diseases indoors and aspergillosis only happens when the bird is stressed out and has a depressed immune system or when the bird is exposed to high levels of aspergillus during a prolonged period of time - otherwise, they can fight it off with no problem.

Unfortunatly aspergillios is a common disease among pet birds which can get the infection from mold spores on pretty much any food iirc, but its very common from spores on nutshells etc.
There are lots of bacteria, spores etc indoors, infact indoor air is quite unhealthy, even for humans.
You are incorrect as to saying there are no risks indoors. You also run quite a lot of other risks such as gas leaks, teflon cooking (I seem to remember you using that in some baking machines right?), perfume, candles, lead from wall paint, and a lot of other indoor related risks.
Keeping the parrots isolated indoors isnt a good solution to be honest, and you are kidding yourself if you think its risk free.

know that taking parrots outside has become a fad

People have been keeping parrots and other birds in aviaries for decades, its hardly something new.

Besides, she is talking about leaving them outside, without supervision, all morning long because they 'mess' - NOT a good idea no matter how you look at it.

I completely agree with you.

When you talk about pet parrots, you are not talking about birds that are the product of natural selection, living in their natural environment

Agreed, but then again, they are only a couple of generations removed from their habitat at most, in many cases. Parrot species are not nearly as damaged as dog breeds, which have been bred over thousands of years. Yes there are exceptions with some idiots breeding parrots for colour mutations etc, especially with parakeets.