Behavioral differences between hand-raised and parent-raised

[jparrothead]

This is a really great exchange! I do all the things you just said, though I am a bit embarrassed to admit it (but heck, I am on a PARROT forum!).

Finding the right balance of time and attention though is something I am worried about.

Right now, I am in ga-ga stage and really like being with my bird. I ensure 12 hours of uninterrupted dark sleep at night (in a separate unused room in the house). And I engage the bird physically roughly 5 times a days for between 15-30 minutes or so at a time. It also has started having outside-the-cage time in its playpen. After these 'play sessions' it seems to like to eat in its cage and then nap for a time (it is SO quiet!). Keep in mind that s/he is only about to turn 4 months old...

I am concerned about overdependence though, and I do not want the bird to be too needy for me and develop psychological problems later, and then have the bird turn against me when I fail to fulfill its needs. I work from home, so I am around the bird a fair amount. I try to break up the 'sessions' of bird handling though, with about 2 hours or so in between, so the bird gets attention and fun time with me, but time to eat, play and chew in its cage, and its favorite, hanging out or napping in its Snuggle Hut!

So I am trying to thread the needle between 'forming the bond', giving appropriate attention to the bird, and letting it develop its independence. I hope I am on the right track!

As for harness/flight suits--I think your tale may tell me that I SHOULD start earlier rather than later, lol! I've seen several places that the younger the parrot is when it it introduced to the flight suit, the more likely it is to accept it. I guess BeBe's example may show me!

[Pajarita]

Thanks Pajarita, and no, I don't think you're being a party-pooper at all. Although on Day 4 things STILL seem too good to be true, I was hoping for a healthy dose of reality, and expect issues--some big--to eventually arise. I am encouraged by my GCC's behavior so far--hand-tamed, friendly, very cuddly, and very, very quiet. I am hoping that these are good signs for the future.

I'll take your advice on 'building the bond' now. Since s/he is tame, there really is not much I 'must' do right now, as it seems to like praise and treats from me.

One thing I have been thinking about is introducing it to a flight suit. I have read that the earlier in life they are familiar with them, the easier it is for them to tolerate them. Since regular outdoor flight exercise is something I intend to do, I really would like this to succeed. I have been wondering if I should purchase a flight suit now, and start acclimating it (placing it near near the bird, putting treats on it so it knows it is harmless, etc) and then later (a month or so) begin the process of putting it on it.

Yes! The sooner you introduce the suit, the easier it will be for the bird to accept it.

[Scotty]

jparrothead don't worry so much, Green Cheek Conures aren't all that demanding, this isn't a Cockatoo!

If you had a Cockatoo, that would be another story, they can really bond to you and be a pain, they really thrive on a lot of attention.

So relax, have fun and enjoy your bird, BUT just give it ONLY the amount of time in the beginning that you think you will constantly give the bird, otherwise you spoil the baby, to have her/him realize later Daddy/Mommy don't spend so much time with me.

I think I read you said you work at home, if so I'm always around my bird too at home and as they get older they hang out and amuse themselves too, if you give them some things to play and keep busy with, then when bored or wanting your attention if you allow the bird to fly he/she will fly to you and then leave when wanting to do something else.

Allow your GCC to fly around your house when it's wings grow, it's good for the bird, physyically and psychologically.

But yes as others said, go slow on training, just maybe for now 10 mins a day until the bird gets a little older.

We all go GaGa in the beginning, but I really believe it's also good to actually give the bird a lot of space, with you as example just in the same room and showing the bird to be a good bird and play by itself to teach independance from the beginning so you don't have a crazy screaming baby for your attention all the time.

The GCC will scream and yell for attention but this is not loud at all, or should never drive anyone crazy. So in the future when traiing to be quiet, leave the room when the bird is yelling in a way you don't like,wait for him/her to be quiet, THEN come back 10 mins later, and before you know it, he/she will realize they don't get your attention until they are quiet!

CHEERS

[jparrothead]

Scotty,

Ha, yeah I do over-worry about things--and not just parrots! Part of it is that I have researched the heck out of this and read of so many horror stories of overdependence and screaming and then anti-social (or asocial) behavior--the classic 'turning-on-you'--that I am concerned about making a mistake,

But for at least the second time, you have made me feel a lot better!

I have noticed that there seems to be a time limit of interacting with my bird--just named Darwin, or Darwyn, if female, as of just a couple hours ago! After about 30-40 minutes, there seems to be a bit of 'crankiness' and the nipping (or gnawing or chewing!) starts to occur. I put Darwin back in his cage and he eats a bit and goes into his Happy Hut to nap--seemingly fine for a couple of hours.

I like the idea of interacting first thing after i take him from his nite-nite cage in the mornings, with treats and a bit of step-up time, etc., and then it is chow time in the day cage, and he seems fine for a few hours of eating, drinking, general merriment, and napping. Then I interact again, today, outside in the fresh air (it is safe and he is right next to me), but, like I said, once minute 40 hits, the crankiness starts to set and the chewing on my hand commences--I took him back upstairs, he ate for a minute and has been napping since (an hour).

I will interact outside his cage once more again and then at nite-nite time (8:00ish) he goes to the nite nite cage for 12+ hours of dark, uninterrupted sleep.

This is a schedule I can manage for its life and I think gives him nearly 2-3 hours of time with me and out of its cage.

Eventually, when he is flighted, YES, I will do that too. Given that we have a dog and other hazards that are not removable or mitigated, I really cannot have a 'free-range' bird in doors, but can give him about 30 minutes a day when HE chooses to fly to me or stay in its open cage or playpen. And I will go for the harness/flight suit. I will probably buy that next week and introduce it.

So I really appreciate your telling me to just relax and enjoy and not sweat things so much. I have provided a lot of toys and have no problems providing more--I really want to find an appropriate foraging toy but I think most of them are made for larger parrots--I'll keep hunting!

(Darwin)

[Pajarita]

Well, GCCs are not known for screaming loud when they want company but they are known as big time nippers when they are not out of cage and handled for a goodly number of hours. Aim for 3 hours of one-on-one (this time doesn't have to mean you actively doing things with the bird, it could just be riding your shoulder around the house or while you work, they just need the close company and not necessarily excitement) and 2 more of out of cage on its own (flying around, on a stand, etc) and you should have no problems. But, most of all, make sure the schedule is firm and the routines are daily (parrots thrive on schedules and routines). As to handling him when he first wakes up, that would be OK as long as this time is used for cleaning the cage and putting out fresh food (she/he can ride your shoulder while you do these things and you can talk to him/her, give a little scratch, etc) but breakfast should always come before out of cage time, training or whatever (it's what they do in the wild and it always pays to follow their natural biorhythms -keeps them happy and healthy but, aside from that, 12 hours of fasting is a veeeeery long time for a little bird with a fast metabolism). They should also always be left alone at noon for their midday nap and rest. Be careful with the steady 12 hours of light and 12 of dark all year round because birds can end up hormonal that way...

[jparrothead]

Pajarita, good advice! Darwin loves going up on my shoulder, even more than getting neck/head rubs anymore--in fact, as soon as I start to rub his neck and head, he heads for my shoulder/neck! But I have been trying to discourage this behavior, as I know they can get dominating there. I have been largely having him step up, without problems, right back afterwards. I have put him up there for breif periods-- 30 seconds, up to 3 minutes--again with out problems. honestly, if I could manage the behavior so that he didnt bite me when I went to have up step up off my shoulder and on my hand (again, what he is currently doing), then I would be thrilled for this! Again, not sure how to thread the needle.

As for 'nippiness'-- I think the better word should be hand-chewing!! Most of the time, Darwin is fine, and the beaking is of no consequence. But, several times a day, the chewing commences. I dont react, but I do sometime put my fingers on his lower beak and un-chew them from my flesh. It works, usually. The more minor nipping that lasts a second or so i totally ignore.

I would like to curb this as much as possible. I have also read that this is mostly a juvenile GCC issue, with it largely curbing itself as it ages. Perhaps this is urban legend, a bird-by-bird situation, or wishful thinking! If the chewing doesnt get worse, I am ok with the current amount and 'damage' done to me. But I dont want it to get worse or to hurt anyone else!! And DEFINITELY do not want a bird that uses its beak it bite to avoid stepping up! I would call this a 'bite' as opposed to being 'nippy', and I think that is a proper distinction.

Darwin

[Pajarita]

The 'chewing' is called 'beaking' and yes, all babies and juveniles do it. It's also hard for them to figure out the actual pressure they can put without hurting you so, when he/she starts to press down a bit too hard, immediately say "Gently, gently..." (or something to that effect) and immediately take your finger off her beak. This way, he/she will learn when to stop.

As to preventing him/her from riding your shoulder, all I have to say is "GOOD LUCK!" GCCs seem to live for riding shoulders and cuddling against your neck or face and, although people say they bite the chin when they do, none of my four ever did after they bonded with me -and all of them were given up because they were bitey!

Personally, I am not one to deny an animal something that gives them pleasure... especially if the reason why is something that has not happened yet -LOL

By the way, the 'height dominance' theory has been debunked a long time ago.

[Olivia Bird]

In response to the original question I think hand fed birds are a lot easier for most owners to handle and bond with but I also see the mass hand rearing of birds for the pet trade to be problematic. My first companion parrot was a middle aged, never handled cockatiel. It took a long time to bond with her but she still became my best buddy. Now I have more birds, several rescues, some that were parent raised and some that were hand fed and my own hatched-here co parented budgies. I also spent many years working with an aviary with no shortage all categories. The biggest difference I notice in tame parent raised vs hand fed birds is the latter are much more open to different types of body touching. That said I also find them to be less independent, have much lower threshold for stress tolerance (which can tip over into nastier aggression), less able communicate with other birds and more prone to stereotypic or repetitive behaviors like screaming and plucking. The parent raised birds take longer to tame, are generally less 'full body tame', demand less, are less noisy (re frustration tolerance) and socialize better with other birds. They are more prone to flight over aggression when scared or frustrated - which to me is a positive.

While I know it has yet to stand the test of time, personally I think co parenting is best. My co-parented budgies seem to me to be the best of both worlds. Just as tame as handfed but fully able to be birds. It is my hope that the future of aviculture is flighted and co-parented birds. Birds who must be denied both flight and access to their own parents to imbibe dependence on humans makes me think 'what's the point?' Even for those who lack the patience to use a little R+ to tame 'breeders' (and I really think if that's the case one should question breeding birds), should recognize that it takes less time to condition those adults to go into a holding pen to each a plate of goodies while you handle their chicks, as it does to syringe feed a baby round the clock.