Can we please be nice to new members?

[cml]

This post is intended to each and everyone on the forum, myself included.

Over the the last few months, I've seen way too many new members write on our forums, only to get bashed which in most cases lead to them leaving the forum.
Sometimes they put in a reply, saying that this is how it seems to be on this forum (I've seen that quite a few times), but most often they just disappear.

THIS IS NOT GOOD!

I realise that some of the posts we get here are crazy and that we only want the best for the birds, but the only thing we do when replying in a harsh/condescending/sarcastic tone is scare the new member off, which is going to hurt the bird, not help it.
If someone bothers enough to register a profile here, and ASK, they probably are willing to learn if given a chance.

Another aspect is the long term survivability of the forum, Ive been here for more than two years now, most of the members from the time I joined are long gone, many because of the tone of discussion.

I dont mean that we need to be super-friendly in each and every post, but we need to be civil, understanding, try to explain rather than tell off, and very importantly, try to see it from other people's perspective.

So please, be nice to new members and one and other.
That way we can keep a good and healthy discussion going, and help more birds out there .

[Pajarita]

I've been doing this since the whole birdsite thing started and it's the same with all of them -well, let me rephrase that: it's the same with all birdsites that actually tell the person the right way of caring for parrots. There are lots and lots of sites out there that are nothing but fluff, pictures, stories, Ohhhh's, Ahhhhh's and Awwwww's, where everybody is a good parront and everybody's bird is happy and where doing the wrong thing by the bird is a 'personal decision'. Needless to say, I don't go to those forums. For one thing, they would ban me in an instant -LOL- but, for another, people that go there do not really want to learn, they want to get the pat on the back and be told they have pretty birds.

I am very straightforward in my answers and I would assume that some people take that as a negative thing but I have very little time and even less inclination to stroke somebody's ego just so I can cajole him into learning what they should have known before they even got the parrot. I would do it if it would mean helping a bird but, in my personal experience, the people who really want to learn and really care about their birds don't mind getting a short and straight answer even if they would prefer the long and sugar-coated version. It's the ones that want to hear an easy solution to their bird's problem and the ones that don't want to hear it's their fault when, in reality, if you think about it, anything and everything that happens to our birds is directly related to something we did or something we did not do.

When people post about a problem and they are told that it's because the life they are giving the parrot is not good enough, they immediately get offended as if this answer was a personal attack on them but what they don't realize is that we are all on the same boat! Parrots are not good pets. With the exception of the English (aka show) budgie, they all belong to undomesticated species and their physiological and emotional needs are so complex, so specialized, and so very different from ours that they are impossible to fulfill when they live as humans pets so all our birds, without exception, suffer in one way or another under our care. Personally, I hate this fact and try my very best to keep the ones under my care as healthy and content as I can and if I have a problem I cannot figure out and somebody tells me it's because I am doing something wrong, I want to hear exactly what that is so I can correct it - even though I know that, ultimately, I will still fall short... Humble pie is the daily bread of every good parrot keeper...

[pennyandrocky]

I made so many mistakes with my I wish I had had a forum like this where people will tell me what was right and wrong with parrot care. anything I did right with him was all an accident plus he was a very tame bird for a parrot so we both got very lucky. the first 10 years I had him he ate the seed mix that my grandmother always fed him plus the fruits and veggies I like to snack on were shared with him, accidently fed him healthy foods just because he would steal from my plate. I never heard of clipping a bird until after I gave my to my cousin who told me later she clipped her. if he had been clipped when I got him out of ignorance I might have done the same if I was told that was the only way to keep him safe.

[GreenWing]

Did I miss something happen? Dang it, I'm away for a day and I miss the drama (I kid, I kid).

The way I see it is that "parronts" are VERY often like parrots... and "parronts" can be quick to strike JUST like parrots. I am like a GREY so I am very sensitive and I always approach sensitive topics sensitively (hah, say THAT last sentence five times fast, lol). But some other parronts are NOT Greys, they're blunt Macaws or Sennies or 'Zons and they'll speak their mind as it is. I do not see this as a bad thing, necessarily.

I am very straightforward in my answers and I would assume that some people take that as a negative thing but I have very little time and even less inclination to stroke somebody's ego just so I can cajole him into learning what they should have known before they even got the parrot. I would do it if it would mean helping a bird but, in my personal experience, the people who really want to learn and really care about their birds don't mind getting a short and straight answer even if they would prefer the long and sugar-coated version. It's the ones that want to hear an easy solution to their bird's problem and the ones that don't want to hear it's their fault when, in reality, if you think about it, anything and everything that happens to our birds is directly related to something we did or something we did not do.

See, I actually respect this greatly. And in all of my own research on parrots and talking with parrot people and vets, Pajarita is very correct in her advice and what she says regarding parrots. 'Just saying that I have a HUGE amount of respect for someone who keeps it real. Sometimes it's HARD to sugarcoat certain things regarding parrots.

That all said, honestly, I have seen very few, if any, instances here at the forum where people were really unkind to others... again some "parronts" are blunt but parrots can be blunt, too. We're passionate about parrots here at the forum and we want what's best for them. Perhaps if a person feels offended they should just say so and talk it out via PM, rather than giving up on the forum, because if you ask me, I think everyone here at the forum is great with MUCH to offer regarding parrot trainings, care, and more.

[cml]

Most of the things youve said I agree with, but absolutely nothing contradicts my original post.

Greenwing, a new member will generally not pm, they will leave. Most often feeling offended and not taking any advice to heart.

Most of you need to re-read my post I think.

[cml]

I am going to be blunt, since I think you people may have misinterpreted my original post.

If you by your way of responding to a new member to the site, scare them off, leading them to not get help or advice on a particular issue that they sought advice on, you may end up hurting that parrot rather than helping it.

I dont get how that is hard to understand?

Its not about sugarcoating or fawning other cute parrot pics. All that shit, and yes Í am blunt again, doesnt matter! Its about maintaining a civil approach, trying to see it from a newbie's perspective and be helpful.

If you start off by saying, "Hey, you provide a shitty environment for your parrot and should rehome it" or "You are doing everything wrong, its all your fault" you WILL SCARE PEOPLE AWAY from the forum. It doesnt matter if you know that this is the case, dont be so freaking blunt in the first few replies!

Try to explain it in nice words, because the poster WANTED to recieve help, and if met by constructive advice rather than what we usually see, they might even stay around the forums for more than a couple of days, and get to know more things about parrots.

The only thing you do by responding in the ways Ive seen, is hurt parrots out there. If you feel that its worth hurting the birds rather than try to help, then by all means go ahead.

[Pajarita]

I understand what you are saying but, sometimes, it's impossible. For example, take the lady who bonded deeply with her gray and, when she started working full time, the bird started plucking and even self-mutilating, what kind of solution is there for this problem aside from either the woman to stop working and stay at home or for her to give the bird to somebody who is home all day long? Getting another bird won't help because grays hardly ever bond with another bird and, even when they do, it takes a loooooong time for that to happen and, in the meantime, the poor bird is suffering and mutilating itself. Foraging toys won't work because grays are so smart, the bird would be able to get the treat out of the toy in a matter of a few minutes which still leaves the rest of the day by his lonesome. As to paying somebody to care for the bird... well, that might or might not work and, even if it works, to make the bird bond to a paid companion is not what you would call the best solution because, sooner or later, this companion will also disappear from the bird's life and back to square one!

I know nobody wants to hear that their bird would be much better off with somebody else but, unfortunately, people who have all the conditions (infrastructure, knowledge, time, energy, stability, financial resources, etc) to be a good parrot keeper are very, very, very few and most people who keep parrots shouldn't. Why? Because most people have a normal lifestyle!

[GreenWing]

I do understand you, cml, and your posts are honorable and I appreciate how thoughtful this thread is. But I guess am scratching my head because I am not seeing these posts? Are these posts limited to the introductory section or do you mean the forum in general? I ask because I remember one thread where a poster shared some photos of her birds. And yes they were cute photos of her cute birds, but her birds were ON A STOVE. And I think Michael responded saying something along the lines of (major paraphrase) "Hey, nice pics but you shouldn't let your birds on top of the stove as it can be unsafe." And then the poster attacked Michael for his response and said she was leaving and not returning. So, it goes back to the problem: How can you really sugarcoat some things when a poster is in the wrong? Sometimes people lash out when told and take things personally when really, those on this forum are indeed here to help. Even those who are blunt mean well. People have different ways of expressing themselves, even when being polite. For instance, have you heard of a conversation example about Americans communicating with German people? Perhaps it's the language itself, but Americans have a way of beating around the bush and being overly polite...whereas Germans are really to the point and blunt. It's really fascinating. Absolutely, yes, I agree with you, it is important to be kind and respectful on this forum. But maybe the perceived "rudeness" from others isn't really meant? Maybe the blunt person is helping and being kind when responding in their own way?

I understand what you are saying but, sometimes, it's impossible. For example, take the lady who bonded deeply with her gray and, when she started working full time, the bird started plucking and even self-mutilating, what kind of solution is there for this problem aside from either the woman to stop working and stay at home or for her to give the bird to somebody who is home all day long? Getting another bird won't help because grays hardly ever bond with another bird and, even when they do, it takes a loooooong time for that to happen and, in the meantime, the poor bird is suffering and mutilating itself. Foraging toys won't work because grays are so smart, the bird would be able to get the treat out of the toy in a matter of a few minutes which still leaves the rest of the day by his lonesome. As to paying somebody to care for the bird... well, that might or might not work and, even if it works, to make the bird bond to a paid companion is not what you would call the best solution because, sooner or later, this companion will also disappear from the bird's life and back to square one!

Ah, yes I remember that post. I thought it was handled well, actually. Nonetheless that poster was better off talking with an Avian Vet about possibly getting another bird while considering a pet sitter. With a pet sitter in the meanwhile at least the parrot wouldn't be lonely.

[Michael]

Most people ask questions on this forum for one of two purposes: either because they want to learn from others based on what they know/think or because they want reassurance for their own way of doing things. The problem with the second type of questioner is that if he or she does not hear what he or she expects/wants to hear, he/she will try to solve this by going somewhere else where he/she will hear what he/she wants to hear rather than to possibly change his or her ways.

I've been talking to people about not clipping birds wings for years now. Some are open to hearing things and may or may not change. But others just get really pissy about it. They feel guilty for clipping but will never admit it. So they take it as a personal attack when someone suggests that the bird needs to be able to fly for its well being. Cognitive dissonance breeds hostility.

I'm absolutely for nurturing a pleasant/hospitable forum. If people are upset/leaving because other members are mean to them, that is not acceptable. If it is because the questioner did not get to hear the answer that would reaffirm to the questioner that what he/she is doing is acceptable, then nothing could have helped. Giving harmful/bad advice to keep those kind of people happy is unethical for the bird's sake. Telling the truth makes them angry. It's an attitude problem that cannot be solved either way.

Anyone who is willing to learn from the experiences of others is completely welcome here. I am still learning myself. And while I don't agree with everything that is written, it does not mean that I should run away from it or start a conflict. It's just another chance to question what I know or to reaffirm that what I know is superlative. This forum is a place for discussion, debate, learning, and fun. The goal is the best outcome for our feathered friends. Please keep it civil and do your best to help people.

[Wolf]

Hi !
This is a great topic and there is merit for what everyone is saying. We do need to be understanding, compassionate, caring and above all honest when we respond to a post. And there is where things have a tendancy to get dicey. Why? I guess it all depends on who we are being understanding, compassionate, caring and honest to or about the bird or the person. Sometimes it is difficult to be these things to both. By the way both is the only correct answer.

I am 59 yrs. old and although I am new to parrots I have worked with animals that have people problems all of my life and this is the same type of issue that I have encountered regardless of who I was dealing with. I myself have a strong tendancy to be in favor of the animals perspective.Still it is the people that we must reach with our advice and not the animal.We can tell everything to the animal (and many of us do ) but it is only through the people that we can hope to effect change for the better for our furry, scaled or feathered friends.

Love this place thanks everyone!