Can we please be nice to new members?

[Dbeguy]

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Most people ask questions on this forum for one of two purposes: either because they want to learn from others based on what they know/think or because they want reassurance for their own way of doing things.

This is very true. The one danger (as I see it, layman that I am) is when people pronounce their views dogmatically. I think this gets to the heart of cml's original post. It's the same with parenting human children: there are useless fads out there. There are all sorts of "experts" out there who spread some very bad advice.(NOT referring to a certain Wizard we all respect) Other than this, sometimes there are no "right answers" & there are many ways to be a loving parront.

[Wolf]

LOL - I don't know about parrots been people... I like and understand them much better than I do people, that's for sure!

My point exactly

[marie83]

In all honestly I think I have only seen a couple of posts in the time I have been here with haven't been "nice". I have seen some heated debates but tbh I see these as a good thing- provided it stays just that and doesnt turn into a war of words. The thing with text is that it is so easy to read things the way you want to read things- for instance if I'm having a bad day I could quite easily take offence at anything anyone said on here no matter how well worded it was- but that's down to how I am.

The other thing is as other people have pointed out is that people come on here already having an idea in their heads of the type of reply they wish to receive and when they don't get it they can't handle it or will turn elsewhere for encouragement. Then there are those that find the forum, post a message or two then move on to the next new online thing- those people never would have become regulars here anyway, just look at the number of people who come here and say "Hi I have a xxxx called xxxx who is 18 years old" and then never come back again no matter how many welcome messages they get. I think it is just the nature of online communities in general.

Then of course there are the people who just want reassurance that their way is the best thing ever, so full of their own expertise that they will never consider another way of doing things no matter how nice and encouraging people are and no matter how many people disagree with them.

Speaking as a highly oversensitive person I'm not going to sit here and spend an hour trying to word things in a way that I think wont be taken the wrong way even though I can get upset about things myself. Sometimes I'll put things in a way that does sound harsh but I cant really think of another way to word it- actually I think my wording is "off" a lot as I do worry about upsetting people a hell of a lot but on the other hand I would never post on here at all if I sat down and analysed everything I wrote. This is because even in face to face chats things that were clearly meant in a certain way get taken a different way and that's so much easier to get a grasp on the tone of a conversation than if it is in a block of text.

At the end of the day the people who genuinely care about the welfare of their birds and have a desire to learn will stay and take peoples opinions on board (even if they end up disagreeing) rather than posting a "I wish I had never asked" message or just disappearing.

[CaitlinRice413]

[cml]

You know what else would be helpful? Encouraging people when they actually do the right thing.

Absolutely, encouragement goes a long way towards helping both parrots and owner alike. This is true in most aspects of life, and generally (and sadly) people are much faster to critize than encourage.

Not just that, but when you give advice and it doesn't reflect your actual experience then it reflects badly on the forum. If you're not really sure about something then provide a source. If your not learning things in real life, where your information primarily comes from someone else, make sure its a credible source. If you've never even met an aggressive parrot who is obsessed with attacking people, how could you possibly know what sort of advice to give based one written description? Anyone who's worked with numerous parrots would ask more questions and talk about different scenarios that might be similar to the situation before giving a diagnosis and prescription. Some of the trainers I've read about this past year make me want to puke and yet it's totally accepted by thousands of people. A good example of someone who's info I trust is Barbara Heidenreich. Formal education, decades of hands on experience, humane and gentle approach, study of wild animals in their natural habitats, those are things to look for.

I stepped away from the forum when I felt like there was arrogant assumptions and amateur advice when I was seeking a real solid solution. I primarily found it from Barbara and devoted everything in me to giving my parrot the life and attention he deserves. Marie83 was really helpful too, especially with what she went through with her cockatiel. When she talked about starting with reading a book in the same room as the cage because of what that poor bird went through, I trusted her. But our birds are very different. I wasn't just looking for something I wanted to hear; I was looking for a solution. Like actual real experience with the situation at hand. I don't even want to bring it all up because it STILL pisses me off like crazy. Sure, I picked up some good things here, but I would have been lost if it was my only source...

I dont get you here. Are you angry with the forum for trying to help you? I am sure that the people responding to your thread did their absolute best with what knowledge or experience they have. It's in sharing experiences that we learn, and that's why a forum for discussions is such a great place for learning.

It's great that you bring up reading a book as an example, because it doesnt matter if the birds are different, its SOMETHING to try and see if it helps. No, it might not be the solution to get your bird used to your prescense, but it's an experience shared which has worked for many people (and I do speak from personal experience here, just spending time in the same room as Leroy helped us immensly with his taming process when he arrived).

Why would you not want people to try to help with what they know? I get that you dont want arrogance or harshness, and sure, we can do away with that (which is why I posted this post?), but the actual discussions and people trying to help each other is the essence of this forum.

An arrogant know it all who really doesn't know enough, who blabs all kinds of garbage so they can feel cool with a million posts under their name, does just as much damage as anyone else they talk shit about...IMO.

How and why is this a useful comment? It just comes off as everything you've stated you dislike?
There's not many posters with "millions" of posts here, so its actually a bit of an attack on the few of us.

I try to respond to threads where I feel I have input, mostly that is from actual experience with Stitch (who's had a long agressive phase which we had to work through, which demanded lots of work and blood from me) and Leroy (who came to us totally untame and fearful of humans). Since I am also a design engineer and have always liked building stuff and coming up with ideas, I post quite a lot of topics regarding toys, cages, DIY and parrot proofing as well.

[CaitlinRice413]

[cml]

Sorry if you thought I as offending you personally, you never even crossed my mind that way. This is a beef I've had in my mind for quite some time and never had the opportunity to say something until I saw this discussion. Part of me regrets it, but another part is just happy to get it off my chest.

Dont sweat it, I didnt take offense, I just really didnt understand your post .

It seemed like some folks want the approval of others and merely "parrot" them in situations where they don't even know eough about the it to give that advice. Its tedious to talk about, because once a door is opened where I name names and bring p specific things from a long time ago to illustrate my point, I cannot then close that door.

Dont, cant see anything good coming from it.

Part of me regrets it, but another part is just happy to get it off my chest.

Good thing that you did then!

[Pajarita]

Caitlin has a very valid point when she says that people who have no personal experience with a particular problem often give advice as if they knew what they were talking about -and that doesn't only work with situations but also with different species because, how would you know how to deal with, say, gray, if you've never had one? They are not like zons or caiques or caws or tiels or anything else but grays. And the same holds true of any other species. But, in everybody's defense (and I say everybody because we all do it), most people do it because they are convinced their limited experience is as valid as anybody else's and they just want to help. In truth, none of us (not even Barbara) knows enough and we all guess more than know for a fact (it's only that some guess better than others -LOL). It's impossible to do otherwise because in order to give solid advice, one would have to become specialized in one single species and interact with a large number of individuals of it over a period of many years (because birds, like dogs, cats, humans, etc change as they get older) and in different scenarios (one-on-one versus bonded pair versus flock, aviary versus cage, breeding versus non-breeding, etc). And the only people who usually do this are breeders but their concerns are completely different from keepers' and they pretty much only have the one scenario to learn from so their experience is also very limited.

[GreenWing]

When you give advice and it doesn't reflect your actual experience then it reflects badly on the forum. If you're not really sure about something then provide a source. If your not learning things in real life, where your information primarily comes from someone else, make sure its a credible source.

But this is a forum, not an academic database. Personally, I think it's great that so many on the forum add their own two cents, because when it comes to having parrots, like parenting, there is no one-way/linear way of doing things. What works for one person many not work for another. That said, if a parrot owner REALLY needs a particular issue resolved, it is THEIR responsibility to seek more information, and/or an expert (e.g., Avian vet for medical issues).

I stepped away from the forum when I felt like there was arrogant assumptions and amateur advice when I was seeking a real solid solution. . . I wasn't just looking for something I wanted to hear; I was looking for a solution. Like actual real experience with the situation at hand. I don't even want to bring it all up because it STILL pisses me off like crazy. Sure, I picked up some good things here, but I would have been lost if it was my only source.

If you're desperately seeking help for a certain issue, or researching a certain issue, the responsibility really lies in your own hands to seek out that information, as well as consulting experts, veterinarians and the ilk. You can't get angry at a bunch of people who gather on an Internet forum who love to talk about parrots. We aren't here to fix people's problems, but we're here to help in ways that we feel we can, somehow. I consider myself an amateur when it comes to parrots, but I like to think that I'm helping someone when I offer sympathy or empathy, or share info learned from my Avian vet.

An arrogant know it all who really doesn't know enough, who blabs all kinds of garbage so they can feel cool with a million posts under their name, does just as much damage as anyone else they talk shit about...IMO.

Agree with cml here -- how is this a useful comment?

in everybody's defense (and I say everybody because we all do it), most people do it because they are convinced their limited experience is as valid as anybody else's and they just want to help.

Exactly.

[CaitlinRice413]

............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ All in all I feel foolish because I must be the last person in Kansas to realize that when someone calls themselves a wizard, it is smart to look for a man behind a curtain.