Can we please be nice to new members?

[DanaandPod]

Of course there is a huge difference in inept at friendly delivery and being able to impart information while maintaining their audience. However, there is an entirely different thing when it comes to disrespect. And, I feel that I have been completely and outright disrespected and judged and that is inappropriate for this forum, in my opinion. But, overall, anyone who allows such a thing in order to get some information are truly harming themselves. Learning should never be painful of an experience. there is no reason for that at all. If I had been on here less like some of these folks...replying... or was less open...then I'd have no reason to complain. But, instead, I feel i was trapped in quite a whirl wind of contradicting advise. And, this has made me worry to the point of leaving my home and my parrot alone. And, for those who are actually interested in the psychology behind those who prey on those who are vulnerable. Know that they absolutely enjoy and thrive off of getting other people upset because it puts them in a position of control, yet again making them feel like the person they need to feel like because deep down they are lacking inside with rather severe issues!

[DanaandPod]

Wolf, as i noticed you posted/replied/requested.... I'd like to respond. I have felt that your interaction has been thus far... with a desire to help, compassionate, understanding, knowledgeable and also very humble which everyone should be because nobody is perfect. But, above all else, patient and non judgemental. Perhaps, you could be a modifier or translater for Pajorita so some can gain some of her useful advise while sifting out the rest since she cannot hold back from telling people that "they should" or " they can't" "or they wouldn't know how" "or they are impulsive" or "they are ignorant" and "should have done differently" and "she would hate to alienate them...but..." "and they are selfish" and "they should rehome their bird because no parrot should be home alone while someone works" on and so forth...

[Wolf]

Thank you for your kind words, Dana. I am working very hard on how I say things, as I have a tendency to just blurt out what I think and just go on from there. I must admit that in times past it has created some difficulties for me that didn't need to occur. I have always spent the majority of my time in the company of animals and they don't mind that I just blurt things out, but humans are just not wired that way.
If anyone has a problem with what I say, I invite you to let me know, I will listen to what you have to say and will do my best to improve my delivery. I try to be respectful of others and I realize that sometimes I fall on my face, but I will keep trying.
Just like me, there are others who could work on their delivery, but I have no control over them nor do I want any. I just try to take how things are said with a grain or two , sometimes a whole cup, of salt and try to see the actual points of what they are trying to say.
I have noticed that in my time here that there are fewer people posting and have often wondered if it might be partially because of the amount of time that I spend trying to give others the best possible answers that I know of. How much of this trend may be because of my delivery of the things that I have researched. I have even started a few threads trying to get others to respond with a conversation or at least a little dialog.
I have no authority on this forum or on any others for that matter, and I see that this forum has its problems. Michael told me that he wanted this forum to be a place where we could speak what was on our minds, about parrots, of course, without censureship. I can respect this. Michael has done his part in providing us with this place to talk to each other, the rest is entirely up to us. All of us! Not one of us can do this alone, in this respect we are just like our parrots, we need each other. There is no head honcho, there is only ourselves and what we want this forum to grow into. If it falls on its face there is no one to blame for it but ourselves. Together, we can make this site a fun and informative place to come to and talk and share our experiences and research and even the occasional parrot joke. This forum is exactly what we each of us make it to be and we don't make it any better by not talking to each other. I started answering question here because there were only one or two people answering them anyway and there are a lot of people out here in the offline world who want answers and in fact need them. I don't have all of the answers, no single individual does but together we can always find the answers. If you have problems tell me, I will listen to them, I may not be able to do anything about them, unless they are about me, but I can and will listen to you. Don't walk away because someone said something in a manner that you don't like, you will not help them to do better by doing so, nor will you be helping this forum to be the place that you want it to be. If each of us will consistently offer the respect that we want to everyone else who comes here for the first or the thousandth time we will in due course become the majority and those that can not find it in themselves will possibly find it through the rest of us. If you want this forum to be fun, informative and a good place to meet and make new parrot friends and people them make it so, I am trying to do this, but I really don't think that I can do it all by myself, it will take your efforts as well as mind to bring this about, but in any case, sorry to disappoint anyone, but I am not going anywhere and I simply do not give up.

[liz]

Dana, please just accept that Pajarita's passion for birds make what she says sound harsh. There is a difference between the two major info people. Wolf would say "you need a tire swing or something in your back yard" and even help you try to find one. Pajarita would say "keep your kids out of the middle of the street".

I am home most of the time and don't have much of a social life. My pets are my sanity. I feel like this forum is a neighborhood and the birds are children in the families that live there. I stress over my kids and even stress over the neighbors kids.

[cml]

Danapod, I am sorry you feel that way. I havnt been following this thread which gets resurrected every now and then, but my intention with it was to prevent exactly what you are feeling right now.

There is a lot of knowledge, experience, and other tips and tricks here at the forum but unfortunatly the trend lately (year and a half or so) has been more aggressive, and often condescending advice. This doesnt lead to new members being educated or them learning something new, it leads to them leaving. If not right away, then after being told off a few times (which inevitably happens).
I used to love to come here and read the forum many times a day, but somewhere along the track I lost the fun in it.

Wolf, I think your post is great and even if we might not always agree I have nothing but respect for you and I know you mean well (and I think its rare for you to come off as anything but polite). The forum is what we make it, which is what you wrote, and I would love to see ALL members realizing that. We wont help any parrots in bad situations by jumping on new members and tell them how bad they are at parrot keeping.

I would prefer if people tried to:
*Be kind to one and other, what do we benefit from being disrespectful or rude? (does anyone seriously think they help either people or birds by being rude?)
*Be realistic,not everyone can adapt everything in their life within a few days and be the perfect caretaker for bird. (saying that new owners are crap and should rehome will NOT, and I iterate, not help the bird - it will make it worse long term).
*Realize that there isnt just one way of doing things, you can do things many ways but still have a healthy happy bird (the trend right now on the forum is that everything that the "head honcho" says is correct and damned be thou who do not follow this persons advice to the letter)

Meh, feels like I am reiterating things I wrote in the beginning of this thread and I think this falls on deaf ears where it needs to be heard anyway.

Danapod, you are NOT a bad parront!
I havnt been following the forum much lately, but I can tell you care for your parrot. You wish to learn more and educate yourself to do even better by it, and thats something let me tell you. If every parrot owner was as dedicated as you, we wouldnt see so many birds in bad situations.

[Wolf]

A single individual can only be a majority, no matter how right or wrong they may be, when everyone else goes away and/ or refuses to speak. You want this to be a good place to come and so do I. That is why I keep coming and trying to help make it better. Thing is, I can't do this alone, that is not the nature of a forum. This is your forum, too.

[Pajarita]

So you are all offended by my manner and you want sugar coating instead of plain talking. I can understand that. It is, after all, human nature to want this. But I am not concerned with human nature, I am concerned with bird nature. And, let me tell you something, I've been doing the birdsite arena for many years now (can't remember how long exactly but definitely 15) and I have found that people who feel disrespected, hurt, offended, whatever when they are told they are doing wrong are the ones that, usually, come to a birdsite looking for the 'fluff factor', reassurance, praise or the magic trick that will solve their problems without putting work into it. People who really want to learn don't usually have a problem with my delivery. If they don't agree, they are welcome to argue with me. I love a good debate! As to my manner, I praise when people do right and I criticize when they do wrong. I don't tell people things will work out if I think they won't and I don't tell people they are doing right by their parrot if they are not. I try to be gentle if I find out in time I am addressing a child even though I think that children should not have birds as pets... but not with adults. I don't hold my punches with them. They are adults, for heaven's sake! I don't insult people, I don't call them names and I don't belittle them, I tell them what I would like to hear if I was in their place. I know doing right for pet parrots is real hard and I know that, in most cases, when parrot keepers do wrong, they don't do it out of disregard or lack of love but out of ignorance... but what parrots need is what it is and it's not a matter of opinion or many ways of doing the same thing, as CML says. It's a matter of what they evolved to need both physically and emotionally and all parrots are considered 'specialized' so there is no real room for flexibility. I did not make the rules, Nature did. She is the 'head honcho' when it comes to parrot husbandry. I just happen to have been caring for parrots for over 20 years, done it for many different species as well as in large numbers and do A LOT of research so I have learned these 'rules' and just tell people what they are. Problem is, people shoot the messenger when the message is bad for them (human nature, again) but, thankfully, this doesn't really bother me.

It is true that we have been keeping captive-bred parrots as pets for a very short time, historically speaking, and it is true that we are only now learning about them in any depth from a scientific perspective but it's not true that we can do things differently than nature and just use love as the great equalizer. Love does NOT trump good care. Love does not make a hormonal parrot physically comfortable, a bad diet good, a stressed out bird relaxed, a sick bird better or provide a lonely parrot company. In my personal opinion, when people use the word 'love' to justify care that is not up to what Nature meant for them, they are not talking about real love. Because when you love somebody or something, you want the very best for them regardless of what that may mean to you.

As to the 'traffic' in this birdsite, yes, it's low. It used to be huge but Michael was even ruder than me and used to ban people left and right for disagreeing with him (I got banned myself years ago) so it slowed down to a trickle. But, in all honesty, I prefer it like this because it doesn't dilute the good advice. When you go to those high traffic sites and post a question, you get 20 answers, most of them wrong, vague, not relevant or wishy-washy, and the OP ends up with all these different opinions and can't get a good straight answer so, human nature been what it is, they end up taking the one they like best. Here, we might not get a lot of postings but the ones we get are all about specific problems and no fluff so I believe it's much better for the OPs.

[liz]

Dana, please just accept that Pajarita's passion for birds make what she says sound harsh. There is a difference between the two major info people. Wolf would say "you need a tire swing or something in your back yard" and even help you try to find one. Pajarita would say "keep your kids out of the middle of the street".

I am home most of the time and don't have much of a social life. My pets are my sanity. I feel like this forum is a neighborhood and the birds are children in the families that live there. I stress over my kids and even stress over the neighbors kids.

Pajarita, please accept that Dana has thin skin and let some one else answer him.

[Wolf]

Just so that you know, Pajarita, I am not offended by anything that you have said. I do believe that I am in the minority on this, however. As a matter of fact, I actually appreciate it and because of it with you, I don't have to worry about my delivery, I can say what I think without the constant questioning that I must do when addressing other people. I have changed my delivery of information so as to try to not offend most people, but this is because their birds need for them to get the right information more than I need to be blunt. I still try to give the right information and so maintain my integrity. I know that I have told Dana that it can work out with her having a cockatiel as a companion to her Pod, and I do believe that if she will apply the things that we have attempted to share with her that it can and will work out. Most things in life are like that and if we try we can make most things work even though there may be another easier and / or better way of doing things.
I have seen some of Michael's rudness on here and I agree that you are gentle in comparison.
I also think that there should not be a problem with more people contributing here as 50 people researching for the right information and sharing it here would be more efficient than just two or three doing the same thing and I think that it can be done without all of the fluff. If there were more people researching and sharing the best information that they can find, neither you nor I or them would need be concerned about our delivery as more of these people could give the right answers to those who come here looking for them.
Or I could be totally wrong about all of this and just talking out my ass, but either way I am here and will keep trying to help anyone who might choose to hear me. I do pull my punches if allowed to do so with everyone as the majority of them are immersed in nothing but fear from the day they are born until the day they die and when your life holds that much fear it is difficult to not be offended, or at least that is my theory.

[Pajarita]

I know you were honest when you said that you thought the tiel will work out as a companion for Pod but that's only because you've never had tiels. Parrots all share similar characteristics but, when it comes down to affinities, personalities, etc, some are as different from one another as a canary would be from a budgie. I love tiels! I think they are one of the most wonderful species of parrots and HUGELY underestimated but tiels are HIGHLY flock oriented and, in 99.9999% of the cases, would ignore other parrots. They might look at them and they might even perch next to them or even try to share a dish but that would be the extent of their relationship with them. But, give them another tiel and they literally come to life! They are also SUPER opportunistic breeders and one of the hardest species to keep from been hormonal all the time - and the hens become chronic layers at the drop of a hat! Pois, on the other hand, are similar to tiels in that they are not usually interested in other parrots UNLESS they are pois and even then it's not a safe bet (I have four pois and none of them would move a claw for the others). They are also jealous little things and very possessive of their humans while tiels are 100% non-aggressive so a tiel would be a sitting duck for a jealous poi.

Interspecies relationships are not all the same... You can mix conure species and they would bond with no problem. You can mix zon species or even a similar one in size and temperament (like a pie, for example, or even a conure) and it would, most likely, work out. Cockatoos are like that, too. Greys are not. Tiels are not. Pois are not. Or, at least, that has been my experience.