Can't decide

[nataliestegall]

I think some of you people on these messages boards need to get off your high horse. It seems like I post here and in other boards to learn and instead I get lectures about how owning a Grey is hard and not for everyone, but of course its is for those of you on here that own them and you apparently seem to think your the only ones. I am not an idiot, and I didn't just go into a pet store see a pretty bird and bring it home. I did research, I know what kind of bird I want and I did not make any impulse decisions. Yes no amount of research can really compare to actually doing the work involved, but at least I know the work involved and am going into this with my eyes open. You people need to remember you all started somewhere too with your own birds and be a little more open to those that are new, less experienced, or w/e because those that are less experienced are not going to come on these boards and ask questions etc if they are just going to be lectured. I realize you are just trying to prepare me, but geez.

[sgtpepper]

Hi Natalie,
I'm with you on this one. Just yesterday I posted a question about African Grey babies and the first thing I got was "you should get a smaller bird" or "birds need to fly daily and they can bite". Oh, and apparently calling them"puppies" or "pups" is the most horrific bloody thing ever. I know I want that specie, I am not an idiot as well to get it just for the sake of it. And people should stick to answering what they are asked, not playing smartass just because they feel like it.

[Wolf]

Actually, in some ways you both may be right and there have been other members of this forum who have brought up this very problem, so you are not alone in this thinking.
I do not doubt that you have done your homework and put in a lot of time and effort in choosing what you want. Unfortunately there is actually a reason for why some would want to discourage you from getting a Grey Parrot, and it is not exactly about you.
There are a lot of people who have gotten Greys without doing their homework and this has led to some pretty nasty horror stories of the abuse that these birds have had to go through, It is much more about trying to protect these birds as they are both extremely intelligent as well as highly emotional birds and they really are one of the most difficult of parrots to keep.
The things that these people have said are true and yes, these things are only part of the story, but you do need to be aware of the downside of keeping a Grey as well as the upside and these people are trying to make you aware of this side because you may very well have to go through some of it and they want you to be prepared and to know beforehand so you can decide if you think that you can deal with it and bring the bird through it instead of sending it to a rescue.
I apologise to the both of you for this ,but you know, there is really no good way to prepare you for that side of it. Personally I do have a Grey and the only reason that I have her is that she was plucked almost completely bald over her entire body and was tearing holes in herself due to the mistreatment that she was receiving and I was certain that she would not survive the approaching winter. It took me several months but I was able to rescue her and she is no longer mutilating herself and is finally growing her feathers back. It has been a long and difficult journey to find and make the required changes in her life to help her.
She is now 15 years of age and I have had her just short of a year. She is independent and also very needy at the same time. She want me to be with her ,but she doesn't want a lot of petting and she always lets me know when she does want scratches as well as when she doesn't. She is a very loyal and loving bird ,but she doesn't want anyone other than myself to even touch her. She is a very complex bird and if you can deal with their apparent contradictory behavior and love them and allow them their space as well Then living with a Grey is not boring and can indeed be very rewarding and it does take a lot of time and patience.
If you can deal with all of this and the things that you have been told about them then perhaps you are suited for a Grey, I will not ever tell you either way to get one or not, that is for you to decide and if you get one and need help I will do all that I can to help you. But I did want you to understand what these people are actually trying to do. Also feel free to disagree with me on anything at all, I really don't mind.

[Pajarita]

The truth of the matter is that grays are one of the most difficult species of parrot to keep happy and healthy and going from cockatiels and conures to a gray, it's like a child going from kindergarten to the 3th grade, skipping the ones in between. I guess there are genius children that can do it but most of them could not. It's not a reflection on what we think of you, we don't even know you, but what we know about grays. Grays are highly demanding and need company 24/7, they tend to be high-strung, overly sensitive, dislike change profoundly and can live (they hardly ever do because of the stress created by inadequate husbandry) around 50 -60 years so we are talking about a VERY difficult bird to keep for anybody and that means 100% of the people (me included). I have two grays and had up to six at one time. Mine have bird companions of their own (took 8 years to achieve this), live cage-free in a birdroom with other parrots (I have no guest room because of this), have natural tree branches as perches, eat organic homemade food every day, have a heater, a humidifier and an air purifier as well as good quality full spectrum lights and are kept at a strict solar schedule (which means I can't go anywhere farther than a two hour drive during the winter and that only if it's in the middle of the day). I stopped working full time because I couldn't care for them properly when I did but, thankfully, my husband is very generous and he supports me and my animals. My husband and I take vacations separately so as not to leave them alone and I've gotten up every day at 5:30 am when I could hardly walk (double pneumonia) to care for them. I spend about 3 to 4 hours a day in the birdroom almost every single day of my life and I have no social life to speak of because I need to be home before sunset and cannot receive anybody in my house after it (my grandchildren birthday parties are done in the middle of the day so I can attend). My entire family thinks I am crazy because despite all these sacrifices, I worry constantly about their quality of life and are always looking for way to improve it. I am telling you what I know, I am sorry you don't like it but this is a birdsite where the welfare of the bird comes first and human feelings second. There are many, many 'fluff' birdsites where the mutual admiration societies thrive and where everybody praises everybody else as a "great parront" whether this is true or not. Personally, I think that anybody who has the money, infrastructure, dedication, time, love and willingness to provide this level of care now and continue doing it for the next 50 years, should adopt parrots (all my birds came to me because they had issues and/or were no longer wanted for one reason or another) Lord knows there are thousands upon thousands in rescue which need a good home. I do not recommend your buying a baby because, for one thing, I don't believe in making the overpopulation problem worse or lining the pockets of people who exploit animals and, for another, an adult gray is always easier than a baby for a first time owner.

[nataliestegall]

I don't mind the lecture every now and then, and I know I am far from an expert on any bird. I just think if you guys should be a little more careful on how you lecture people. Like for example I posted a questions about a grey and was told they are not just hamsters to be placed in a cage, etc. Well instead of saying something like that to me like I had no idea a bird was not a hamster who would like to be out of his cage you could say something like greys require X amount of time at minimum out of their cage make sure you are prepared for that etc. I said nothing in my post about my bird just being left in a cage. I took offense to this like I was just an idiot who wanted a pretty bird and could care a less about interacting with it at all and I believe I just wanted to sit and have it watch me play pokemon or w/e. I am not sure if this was on this board or not, but that is far from my lifestyle I do not play games least of all pokemon and you have no idea how much time I have to spend with my bird and instead of lecturing if you wanted to know you could ask. Yes I imagine you get some clueless people on these boards who have no idea and do just want a bird in a cage to look pretty or w/e and I agree that is wrong and these people need to be educated. I also think that most of the people that come on these boards are truly here to learn because they either already impulse bought a bird (which shouldnt have been done, but at this points it too late for the lecture), want to buy a bird and are looking for help before they do, or somehow came upon a bird (inherited, w/e) most of these people care about their bird or bird to be and are on here to learn from those of you who are willing to share their experiences. When you lecture people and treat them like children they will stop asking questions on these boards and the birds may ultimately suffer for that which would be unfortunate. I have been asking most of my questions on a African Grey Facebook page because they are far more welcoming and are more about celebrating these birds for the amazing creatures they are and the capability they have to be life long feathered friends. They are still willing to teach and educate but seem to do it in a much nicer less judgmental way. Sgtpepper perhaps you can try one out too.

[Wolf]

Now that you have informed us what was said then you should be aware that the person to whom you are referring is also a new member of the forum and only joined just a few days before you did. And because of one parties statements you want to hold all of us at fault? Perhaps you need to look in the mirror just a little more as well.

[nataliestegall]

I wasn't holding anyone at fault, just stating what I had experienced as a whole from this and other message boards. I just used that as an example. I am just trying to learn and thought some of you should know that you might be rubbing people the wrong way with the high and mighty "I can own birds, but you can't stuff". I continue to want to learn and am sorry if I offended you in any way Wolf, you seem to be very knowledgeable and experienced in your bird keeping from what I have seen. I just again wanted to point out what I had experienced. I have also seen that a lot of new people's post about wanting birds are often told the same as I was.
All I am saying is that when someone gets on here and says they want a certain bird maybe you should take the time to get to know that person and find out if that kind of bird is for them, before trying to talk them out of it. It seems like every post I have made someone has been trying to talk me out of my choice with out knowing whether or not this bird is a good fit for me.

On a lighter note I did find a bird, I will be able to pick he/she up tomorrow. I am very excited and still reading up on everything Grey just printed an article on avian first aide that I hope to never need, but will be posting it in my house just in case. I have the cage all set up, with only 1 toy as that is what I have read to be the best you slowly introduce more. I have bought the foods he was being fed so he can be on the same diet, which will be given along with safe vegetables, fruits, etc. I have called an avian vet in my area so he/she can be seen for a check up. The option I went with will come with a health certificate, a hatch certificate and his/her DNA sex certificate once the results are done. I am getting prepared and feel as though I am. I will be hope all day Friday and weekend and most of the day Monday and I plan to allow the bird time to acclimate to his new surrounds, cage, and me. If you have tips on helping my bird feel better about his/her recent move to my house, or anything else that would be great.

[NICrosis]

Trust me. In a few months, you'll be a complete asshat about who should and shouldn't own a bird as well. I want a freaking Triton Cockatoo more than any other species of bird, but I am able to step back and say "This isn't for me yet as my bird would probably need to be put down".

We're not bashing you to be a dick about it. Go to your nearest bird rescue and look into the cages. Greys, amazons, plucked Macaws, cockatoos with broken beaks. These break our hearts and we are jaded. We don't like seeing this, and as we don't know you from adam, we have to take the apprehensive route.

[nataliestegall]

Well Nicrosis I don't think I will ever try to talk people out of what they want. I think it is important to explain the hardship sometimes experienced with these birds, but you should also understand that there are more people capable of dealing with the hardship then just you. I just think that instead of shutting the new people down with comments like this is not the bird for you etc you could be nicer still warn them of the hardship but be like "these birds can be difficult and time consuming and if you decide these birds are for you then welcome and let us help you." You shut people out who have decided these birds are for them and are going to get them no matter what you say (they don't know you after all) and if they have troubles or questions later with their bird they will not come here because of the jaded attitudes and in the long run this hurts the birds and yes that bird might go to a rescue or whatever. This message board is a good resource for new bird owners to use and jaded people will send them away and they will still get the bird or have the bird already and wont use this nice resource for help when its needed. How many people come to this forum new and then get told nope this is not the bird for you and then never come back. How many of those people do you think got the bird anyways? Im willing to bet most of them did, and yes some of them might not be ready for the responsibility, but I dont think we should be here to judge that. We as a group should except the fact we are not going to change their mind and help them with the choice they made so that the best can come out of it for the bird.

[NICrosis]

Well Nicrosis I don't think I will ever try to talk people out of what they want. I think it is important to explain the hardship sometimes experienced with these birds, but you should also understand that there are more people capable of dealing with the hardship then just you. I just think that instead of shutting the new people down with comments like this is not the bird for you etc you could be nicer still warn them of the hardship but be like "these birds can be difficult and time consuming and if you decide these birds are for you then welcome and let us help you." You shut people out who have decided these birds are for them and are going to get them no matter what you say (they don't know you after all) and if they have troubles or questions later with their bird they will not come here because of the jaded attitudes and in the long run this hurts the birds and yes that bird might go to a rescue or whatever. This message board is a good resource for new bird owners to use and jaded people will send them away and they will still get the bird or have the bird already and wont use this nice resource for help when its needed. How many people come to this forum new and then get told nope this is not the bird for you and then never come back. How many of those people do you think got the bird anyways? Im willing to bet most of them did, and yes some of them might not be ready for the responsibility, but I dont think we should be here to judge that. We as a group should except the fact we are not going to change their mind and help them with the choice they made so that the best can come out of it for the bird.

Here's the thing. I knew this place was full of cynics beforehand, and I knew how they'd act. Sooooo, to save myself the headache, I bought the bird first, asked questions later. You can't fix people who think they know everything. But, you can manipulate them. Even though I'm a scrub bird owner, I came in with authority and said "look, I have this bird, I don't want to sit on it by accident. What should I do to keep it alive?" This harbored tons of wonderful responses.