Why did u get a parrot

[Pajarita]

The first parrot I ever got was a galah, she was playing around on our back fence, we(family and I) soon realised that she could'nt fly and so we bought her a cage, and kept her. She only lived a week.
about half a year later my family and I were at a litle Sunday markek, and a local breeder was selling baby GCC's. He looked at them as money, and we could see that that was all (a cute little unweaned, unsexed, not fully feathered) soon to be name Tilly was to him. He handled her roughly and was obviously trying to make a sale.
So out of pitty for we bought her. So I sort of consider her a rescue...
Kahli we got from an aivery, she had fallen out of the nest, her sibling had died and we were offered to try to raise her, sadly we only made 4 days with her.

Yes, sometimes and as crazy as it may sound, buying a bird from a breeder is a sort of rescue.

[seagoatdeb]

I dont agree with you at all on that at all, It certainly is a good method for those who know how to do it well. I still know many that highly recomend it. Anyway I was only answering your question, I dont want an argument about anything I post that is only an answer from my own experience to your question. You can have your opionion and I will have mine. Enough said. This post is about why you got a parrot so please lets stick to the topic.

I am not going to argue with you but you need to realize that there are lots of lurkers that read the postings as a source of information so, when you mention a technique that is no longer recommended (and for a very good reason), it needs to be said. I am not trying to antagonize you, I am trying to help people do right by their birds.

I have helped people to do right by their birds too. I have helped some people who were afraid to take their bird out of their cage. Once their bird was tame that bird would have a life. I am not trying to antagonize you either, but you are not 100 percent right on everything. Its like raising childfren, parents try to do best for their kids, some let them do what they want and guide them gently, some are firm with many rules, one method will fall out of favor for good reasons, and then back in later since it was better than what it was replaced with. Pellets saved a lot of birds lives from malnutrition, and then people started feeding parrots cooked food to do better for their parrots, Now there is a movement to feed mostly raw food and a natural diet. I only have a few birds, as I only have time to give a few birds a really good life and I have helped promote people to have good relatioships with their parrots. I am glad there are people who take in a lot and run sanctuarys,its better than being neglected, but it leaves a lot to be desired. If I run into someone that needs help and has a bird that has been stuck in their cage, I will help with whatever works with that bird using my experience not yours, mine is what works for me. The proof is in the pudding, if it works it doesnt matter who says its out of favor.

[Pajarita]

I am sure that you love birds and have helped many people and that is a great thing to do! It is, after all, what we try to do here. But, unfortunately, the 'proof is in the pudding' doesn't quite work when it comes to behavioral modification techniques. There are many techniques that used to be used to tame birds and train animals that have fallen in disfavor and not because I say so but because it has been found that there are better options and that, in many cases, these techniques backfire. When I was a child, people used to grab the puppy and rubbing its nose in its urine, slap its behind to housebreak it. We thought that was the way to do it, everybody did it that way and nobody thought it was unkind. Did it work? Yes, it did. But we no longer do this. Now we know that if we take the puppy out immediately after eating, drinking, playing or when he wakes up from a nap, he will pee and, when he does, we praise while, if it has an accident, we simply ignore it (positive reinforcement instead of negative). Infinitely kinder to the puppy and it works just as well! Look at horse breaking... You have the cowboy way of simply roping the horse, putting a saddle on it and riding it until the poor animal is plain exhausted -which worked just fine- or you have the kinder way used nowadays that consists of something like 16 steps and where you take your time, get the horse to trust you and accept your touch and then gradually put pressure on the back until you can ride it. See what I mean? The older techniques used force, intimidation, fear, etc. while the newer ones allow the animal to gradually make the transition on its own at its own pace without force and giving praise instead of punishment. And that is the difference between flooding and non-flooding techniques. The 'towel technique' you refer to was widely used years ago but it's textbook flooding. Let me explain. The bird is afraid of you and doesn't want you to touch it but, because it's in a cage or its wings have been clipped, it can't get away from you (the instinctual flee response is completely thwarted which is VERY stressful to a prey animal). You chase the bird inside the cage and grab it (again, preventing the flee response). Then you towel it, thereby immobilizing it (VERY scary to the poor, little scared bird) and proceed to force it to accept your touch by repeatedly scratching its head when you know very well this is not only something he does NOT want but something that is scaring the crap out of him. Does it work? Yes, it does - same as rubbing the nose of the puppy or bronco breaking did. But it doesn't work by earning the bird's trust and allowing it to have a choice in the matter - to make the switch from fear to trust at its pace and out of its own initiative. You are simply imposing your will and able to do it because you are bigger and stronger. You are not earning the bird's trust, you are subjugating it by force. So, although the end 'puddings' of subjugation (flooding) and of gentling (non-flooding) techniques might appear to be the same, in reality, they are not. Not to the animal.

[seagoatdeb]

I am sure that you love birds and have helped many people and that is a great thing to do! It is, after all, what we try to do here. But, unfortunately, the 'proof is in the pudding' doesn't quite work when it comes to behavioral modification techniques. There are many techniques that used to be used to tame birds and train animals that have fallen in disfavor and not because I say so but because it has been found that there are better options and that, in many cases, these techniques backfire. When I was a child, people used to grab the puppy and rubbing its nose in its urine, slap its behind to housebreak it. We thought that was the way to do it, everybody did it that way and nobody thought it was unkind. Did it work? Yes, it did. But we no longer do this. Now we know that if we take the puppy out immediately after eating, drinking, playing or when he wakes up from a nap, he will pee and, when he does, we praise while, if it has an accident, we simply ignore it (positive reinforcement instead of negative). Infinitely kinder to the puppy and it works just as well! Look at horse breaking... You have the cowboy way of simply roping the horse, putting a saddle on it and riding it until the poor animal is plain exhausted -which worked just fine- or you have the kinder way used nowadays that consists of something like 16 steps and where you take your time, get the horse to trust you and accept your touch and then gradually put pressure on the back until you can ride it. See what I mean? The older techniques used force, intimidation, fear, etc. while the newer ones allow the animal to gradually make the transition on its own at its own pace without force and giving praise instead of punishment. And that is the difference between flooding and non-flooding techniques. The 'towel technique' you refer to was widely used years ago but it's textbook flooding. Let me explain. The bird is afraid of you and doesn't want you to touch it but, because it's in a cage or its wings have been clipped, it can't get away from you (the instinctual flee response is completely thwarted which is VERY stressful to a prey animal). You chase the bird inside the cage and grab it (again, preventing the flee response). Then you towel it, thereby immobilizing it (VERY scary to the poor, little scared bird) and proceed to force it to accept your touch by repeatedly scratching its head when you know very well this is not only something he does NOT want but something that is scaring the crap out of him. Does it work? Yes, it does - same as rubbing the nose of the puppy or bronco breaking did. But it doesn't work by earning the bird's trust and allowing it to have a choice in the matter - to make the switch from fear to trust at its pace and out of its own initiative. You are simply imposing your will and able to do it because you are bigger and stronger. You are not earning the bird's trust, you are subjugating it by force. So, although the end 'puddings' of subjugation (flooding) and of gentling (non-flooding) techniques might appear to be the same, in reality, they are not. Not to the animal.

Your analogies dont make any sense, I think your last post is a case of having a judgement already on something you have probably have never even used or seen done correctly. your "story" of how it is done is completely and utterly wrong. Who woud do something like that? You need to have some experience with it before you can talk about it with me in any way that is realistic at all. The right way to do it is by dropping it over the bird, the same way a vet does, once you have worked up to that point. It does not cause fear or work through fear. No one of any know how uses it in a way that causes fear. I am certainly no cowboy, and I am not jaded by having so many rescue birds and worrying so much about what everyone else is doing. I am more the practical do what works for both parties. With the rescue Senegal, I watched a bird be afraid and unhappy most of the time, day after day. I made the decision because i was not content to watch a bird be unhappy and wait two years to let her be happy. i have too big a heart to allow that to happen when i know there is a method that could help her sooner. In a few days she started to have a life. Had you been around she would have had to wait two years. To me, your attitude holds birds back so I could never adopt it.

I am adding a link here to a demonstration of the way of doing this correctly and it is not cowboy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNGOyeLjxhI

[Pajarita]

It's not me that considers this method flooding, Seagoat. Everybody does and, if you do research about it, you will find out this is so (check Lara Joseph and Barbara Heindenreich). And it doesn't matter if you drop the towel over it or if you just grab the bird, the result is the same: you are forcing the bird to accept something it doesn't want to accept which is, in a nutshell, the definition of flooding. A vet has no choice but to be expedient about the examination and it will, most likely, be dealing with a bird that doesn't know him/her from Adam so a forced toweling is pretty much his/her only option but this is not the case with an owner - parrots are very long-lived and time is never of the essence for anything with them. Besides, parrots can be taught to accept toweling without been forced into it - something that is always recommended precisely because of the need for it when one takes them to a vet (I have explained several times how this is done but I will do it again if you are interested). Maybe you should try the newer method to see how long it takes because I can assure you it certainly does not take two years or anywhere near that long to convince a bird that we can be trusted.

[seagoatdeb]

It's not me that considers this method flooding, Seagoat. Everybody does and, if you do research about it, you will find out this is so (check Lara Joseph and Barbara Heindenreich). And it doesn't matter if you drop the towel over it or if you just grab the bird, the result is the same: you are forcing the bird to accept something it doesn't want to accept which is, in a nutshell, the definition of flooding. A vet has no choice but to be expedient about the examination and it will, most likely, be dealing with a bird that doesn't know him/her from Adam so a forced toweling is pretty much his/her only option but this is not the case with an owner - parrots are very long-lived and time is never of the essence for anything with them. Besides, parrots can be taught to accept toweling without been forced into it - something that is always recommended precisely because of the need for it when one takes them to a vet (I have explained several times how this is done but I will do it again if you are interested). Maybe you should try the newer method to see how long it takes because I can assure you it certainly does not take two years or anywhere near that long to convince a bird that we can be trusted.

Most of your posts on this chain have not been corrrect. Please dont explain apples when i am talking oranges. it is not forcing no matter how many times you assert it, it will not be true. you have never seen me working so you have nothing valid to say. You asked me the question and asked for the explanation. I have eplanined it as much as i am going to. Your eyes are wide shut. Anyone who wants to learn about the method and how to do it correctly can pm me. Lets get back to what this chain is supposed to be about. Here is a link to a correct way to do this method. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNGOyeLjxhI

[Wolf]

I am thinking that this is another one that is turning bad, so lets drop the personal remarks and move on.
I don't mind that there are disagreements as this can work to the benefit of the party asking for information and help So they can work great if we allow them to, but we can't allow them to degenerate this way. Perhaps each presents their opinion, point of view, or whatever then one or two replies to present documentation and or factual supports and then drop it and let the party requesting the information make their own choices, Would that work?

[seagoatdeb]

I am thinking that this is another one that is turning bad, so lets drop the personal remarks and move on.
I don't mind that there are disagreements as this can work to the benefit of the party asking for information and help So they can work great if we allow them to, but we can't allow them to degenerate this way. Perhaps each presents their opinion, point of view, or whatever then one or two replies to present documentation and or factual supports and then drop it and let the party requesting the information make their own choices, Would that work?

Yes it would, and thank you Wolf, i am happy to go along with that, she asked me for the method, then went on to launch criticisms of what she has never seen, and I have asked her not to continue to argue. It would have been okay for her to ask me politely about it, but that was not the intent apparently. They chain needs to be on why did you get a parrot and not on calling down, and trying to prove others wrong. So lets get back to talking about why we got a parrot.

[seagoatdeb]

So to head the post back on why I got a parrot, I took in a cocktiel that needed rescue and was previously bonded to a teenager. That cockatiel only tolerated me and loved my male friend when he came to visit, so i gave my male friend my cockatiel because it was best for her. But I missed her a lot and so I got another Cockatiel and that was the start for me.

[Toggsy]

It started off with just a few budgies in the aviary then we given George our parrotlet then we got Bluebell our other parrotlet
Then we rescued JoJo our pale headed rosella lovely bird wasn't sure on his age but by the time he came to us we were his 4th owners last owners said he was to noisey for them (since then they've bought a too).
Despite having loads of JoJo was fairly tame although he didn't like stepping up on hands but ok with a stick.
He but would happily take food from you In the safety of his cage he was a good whistler he uses to wolf whistle and whistle nah nah nah na nah
We were making good progress with him and he was just picking up and starting to whistle the pink panther theme but sadly JoJo died unexpectedly one minute he was happily wolf whistling on his perch the next he was flapping on the perch on speaking to our vet he thinks he may of had a stroke we were absolutely gutted as he was a lovely bird.
To start with it was strange to come down and not have JoJo greet you in the morning but we decided not to go for another rosella instead opting for a IRN.
Our local bird supplier had 2 at his shop so we went a collected Mojo then a week later my partner had gone back to the shop and bought the other
So we've now got the job of training our new IRNs

This is JoJo