Thinking about getting a Senegal parrot

[Pajarita]

Yes, it sounds as if he was masturbating but, given the fact that he is in a shelter and, most likely, not only exposed to light for too many hours and fed seeds (dog and cat people have NO IDEA how to care for a parrot), it's no surprise.

Now, go to visit him, talk, sing, whistle, give him treats, etc but do NOT put your hand inside his cage or ask him to step up . For one thing, parrots have self-awareness and, although naturally affectionate, are very particular about invasions to their 'space' both in the sense of territory (cage) and their 'persons'. They are very much like people in that sense. They don't like strangers taking liberties so no sticking anything into his cage and no asking for anything, please. It won't endear you to him. And, for another, I am 99% sure he knows how to step up, he doesn't do it because he is surrounded by strangers who, most likely, have no idea how to 'treat' a parrot I know that it sounds a bit funny but believe me when I tell you that everything we all thought we knew about how to deal with a pet does not apply to parrots - if, for nothing else, because parrots do not understand the concepts of discipline, gratitude and eagerness to please that we are programmed to expect in pet animals (dogs, cats, horses, etc they all have them but not parrots). You have to earn a parrot's love and you have to do HIS way not yours.

I also have never heard anything about chicken dander affecting parrots... I would assume that all dander affects any animal's respiratory system if one wants to be precise but, in any case, it's not as if your chickens are going to be housed in the same room as the parrot, right?

[costello22]

Yes, it sounds as if he was masturbating but, given the fact that he is in a shelter and, most likely, not only exposed to light for too many hours and fed seeds (dog and cat people have NO IDEA how to care for a parrot), it's no surprise.

His food dish seems to have some kind of parrot feed in it. The container it came from is on top of the cage. I did find one piece of carrot one time. He doesn't show much interest in eating anything, but maybe that's just when I'm there.

They put a cover over the cage at night. They covered him when I left yesterday at 6 pm (closing time). I noticed they didn't cover him the day before, so it may depend on who's closing up.

Now, go to visit him, talk, sing, whistle, give him treats, etc but do NOT put your hand inside his cage or ask him to step up.

I've read a lot of contradictory advice on this matter, so it's hard to know what to do. My friend mentioned "prying him out of there." One site said to take him out (even if he fights and bites) and take him to a bathroom where he can't hide in order to teach him to trust you. The pet store he was originally purchased from said to put on a heavy gardening glove and rest your hand in the cage, so he'll get used to you.

Maybe I'm just out of my depth here. I told the woman at the shelter that if he were a dog, I'd be able to read his body language in a heartbeat. I've been around dogs my whole life. Parrots, never.

Oh, one other site mentioned using another bird as a model of being outside the cage. My dove Grace would love to model flying around the room. Would that impress a parrot, or would it have to be another parrot as model?

And, for another, I am 99% sure he knows how to step up, he doesn't do it because he is surrounded by strangers who, most likely, have no idea how to 'treat' a parrot

Yes, I finally met the person who was at the desk at intake. She asked the woman who brought him in if he could step up, and she was told he would only step up for her (the woman who was turning him in). So, you're right, he knows how.

I also have never heard anything about chicken dander affecting parrots... I would assume that all dander affects any animal's respiratory system if one wants to be precise but, in any case, it's not as if your chickens are going to be housed in the same room as the parrot, right?

Yes, I have three bantam roosters that sleep in my bedroom. They're outside during the day - at least until winter - but if they're producing dander, it's in my room. I've given a lot of thought to the best place to put the cage and decided my bedroom was the best place to start.

I also have other animals, and I don't know if they would upset a parrot. I have a geriatric Great Dane who weighs about 135 pounds who spends most of her time sleeping on my bed. So, if I got this parrot and put his cage in my room, he and my dog would be together all day. Bridey has zero interest in birds or cats or anything really, so she'd just be sleeping there, but that would be who Kiwi would see the most of.

[Wolf]

You really do need to do a lot more research, concentrating on parrot behavior as well as the nature of the species of parrot that you are interested in before you are ready for a parrot. The best thing that you could do is to find an avian rescue to volunteer at for a while so that you can get some first hand experience with parrots.

You may be able to get away with a glove for a while or in forcing the bird to do what you want of it, but if that bird is a Senegal, then when you remove the glove you will be right back to square one with the additional factor that the bird will eat you alive when you try to force it to your will and you will never be able to handle the bird.

Parrots are not domesticated animals, they are essentially still wild. They do not live in a dominance based social structure and do not recognize authority. Their flock works on voluntary cooperation of the flock member for the mutual benefit of the entire flock.

If you want to have a relationship with a parrot then you never force it to bend to your will. You ask it and you gently teach it and allow the bird to make up its own mind. They are self aware and very intelligent and they need to feel that they have some control over what is done to them if they are ever to begin to trust you and create the bond that makes a relationship with them possible. With parrots trust is the basis for everything and without it the only thing that you have is a biting pile of feathers that you will not be able to touch or interact with, and that is a best case scenario.

The methods that you might get away with when dealing with a dog do not work with parrots. And just for the record if you were to get this bird and use the methods that were mentioned to you other than what Pajarita mentioned to you then all you will get is a very expensive pile of feathers that will bite and attack you at every opportunity.

Keeping a caged bird in a room with a dog is looking for a dead bird, period. Even the most well fed and old and lazy dog is a predator who naturally eat birds and even if your dog does not know this the parrot does and would very soon be a featherless sack of skin and bones that does not trust you and will bite you at every opportunity.

Take the time to read through the posts in the various sections of the forum so that you can begin to learn practical ways that you can use to develop a relationship with a bird.

[costello22]

Well, I followed Pajarita's advice at yesterday evening's visit. I did mention to the staff member about the masturbation and the light and the feed, but she didn't look too interested. The bird really needs to be out of there, but currently I'm leaning toward not getting him. I hope he ends up with someone experienced. The shelter really didn't seem that interested in vetting the adopter, but I didn't fill out an application, so maybe they'll be more discerning of anyone who actually applies. They did mention they had another parrot several years ago (an Amazon?) which went to an experienced home and is doing well.

The staff member suggested I talk to an avian vet which seemed like a good idea when she mentioned it, but then I wondered if a vet would actually know more about the day-to-day life of keeping a parrot than people who actually keep them. Maybe yes, maybe no.

The only bird rescue within driving distance that I can find on the Internet keeps their birds in foster homes.

I wouldn't follow the advice to force the bird out of the cage, because it just isn't my style. It wouldn't feel right to me. And I won't enjoy the relationship if that's how it had to be. My point wasn't to say the people suggesting that were right. It was just an expression of frustration at trying to get a straight answer about anything on the Internet.

At any rate, I thank you both for taking the time to share your expertise and advice with me. I'll ponder it a bit more, but it's likely I won't proceed with an adoption. If I do, I'll be reading the forum and educating myself thoroughly.

[Pajarita]

You are 100% correct! As reliable a source as the internet is for information, when it comes to parrots, all you get is contradictions - VERY confusing to anybody who is just starting! The truth of the matter is that when we started keeping parrots, we knew NOTHING about them so we fed them the wrong things (meat, eggs, monkey biscuits, etc), kept them in small cages, clipped their wings, etc. Sheesh! We even took their eggs and put them in incubators - something we later realized was absolutely the worst thing we could do. Part of the learning process was, unfortunately, to treat them like we used to treat mammals that 'needed' training so we did not only come up with stupid, nonsense explanations for behaviors (like the height dominance and the leader of the flock crappola), we also thought that discipline, submission, etc could be taught through sheer force. The techniques you mention (leather gloves, force the bird out of the cage and put it in a small, strange room where he has nowhere to go, etc) are all from that time. We no longer use flooding with parrots. Mostly because we have learned a bit about their social grouping, natural behaviors, intelligence, etc and also because we realized they simply do not work in the long run - you either end up with an almost psychotically anxious and distrustful bird that plucks and/or self-mutilates or with a demon with feathers that will stop at nothing to 'kill' you.

Now, I have no idea why the roosters sleep in your room but chickens have diseases that parrots have no natural defense against so that's something you need to take into consideration. The dog... well, I guess it depends on the dog's temperament and age. I have had old dogs my entire life and the extra large breeds do tend to be extremely sedentary when they are old so I believe you when you say that all she does is sleep on your bed (although if she can still get on your bed, she is still agile enough to catch a bird). I don't like birds in bedrooms. I think it's almost impossible to provide a good environment for a bird in one - people like to watch TV or read at night so the solar schedule is compromised, the temperature and humidity in them need to be comfortable to humans while parrots require different ranges, it's very hard to bird proof one, etc. But, I guess if you don't mind making sacrifices for the bird, anything can be made to work out.

In any case, if you do decide to take him, do come back and let us know how you are doing. We will be more than happy to help you work things out.

[Wolf]

Perhaps I could have worded my last reply better, but I was not intending to say that you were necessarily thinking or saying that these other ways were right. I was simply taking those methods and running them to what normally ends up as being the results of those methods so that you could see what the results would be if those methods were to be used. In many of these cases of using those methods there is a short term improvement, but they always end up creating more problems than they solve.

The only thing that saved me when Kiki first came here and I did not know anything about parrots was that I already had many years of experience working with animals that had human problems so I was better equipped than most for sorting out the contradictions on the internet. These contradictions exist simply because the earlier ways that we learned were wrong just have not yet been totally replaced with the newer ways that we have learned to use and these current methods, both the good ways and the bad ways will probably remain on the internet for the next 20 to 30 years before they are finally replaced with the newer and better ways that we are just now learning about. And that means that they will become the new source of frustrations for new people trying to learn about their birds.

In my zeal to try and help make life a little better for the birds we have, I sometimes get lost in describing the results as I see them and forget that I am still speaking to other people and be considerate of how they may perceive what I am describing. So I really do apologise if I gave you the wrong impression.