Is Your Parrot Self Aware or Not

[seagoatdeb]

I do think of it the way you do Wolf, although I give room for all interpretations as well because to me if spirit permeates all things, then everything is part of the whole and has its own unique place. Most important to me is being who you really are, and doing the best you can with what you have and treating all life with kindness and respect. I see awarness peeking back at me in the guise of animals and plants and I have seen that since I was small, even when i didnt have the words to explain it at all. I respect all studies of science, but I do think for myself. Although I love all animals, and all parrots, I have a special affinity to Poiecepahlus parrots, and in them I have really looked at their awarness the most. I see that what I have come to understand as self awarness is in them, and it is based on all my life experiences to this point and not just on science.

Quantum mechanics has studies showing that our thoughts affect particles. This was a very exciting developement in science because at this point you start to see some of the ancient cultures views on spirituality and science running along the same thought.

[Wolf]

I am sure that you don't !

Let's just say that I see pictures and sometimes I talk about what I think about this picture in my mind and other times I just describe the more obvious layers of this picture without giving it much thought. When I was speaking of the interconnectedness of all things, I was only describing the most obvious layers of the picture in my mind. You would probably find it amusing to discover how often I am surprised by the descriptions of what I see in this picture at times.

[Pajarita]

Well, I thought that the fact that the link was a scientific treatise on self-awareness meant that the discussion was to be based on science.

I am well aware of the fact that what used to be considered preternatural in the past has since been proven as science, and I am sure that lots of things that we still don't understand will be, one day, explained. But, in terms of a discussion, one cannot really debate a point using science on the same level as mysticism.

[seagoatdeb]

I often find personal experience much more valuable than science. It really depends on the science.

I get pictures in the mind, but more often I have a feeling of knowingness and if I follow what feels deep and true, it leads me in the right direction. So it is more on the feeling level than the image level, but words can only describe it so far. I can often research for hours and not find an answer, but if I wait until I feel that inspired feeling an insight will come and I can solve the problem, but however we do it, we usually use what works best for us. i am sure we look at our parrots awarness with what works for us.

[Wolf]

Again, I was thinking that it should be a more scientific thing which was why I included a link that would provide a broad definition for self awareness. I also understood that even with the link to help define self awareness that most people are going to base their answer on their own observation and interpretation of what self awareness is.

I was simply asking people what they though about whether they thought their bird was self aware or not. It was never intended to be a debate, just a question. I would have worded it differently if I had intended a debate about self awareness and I may yet do that, but for now I was just curious about what people thought.

Debates can be wonderful and we can learn a lot about things through debate, but not every question needs to be a debate. Although I have kept trying to steer this away from becoming a debate, perhaps I need to be more clear about this when I ask a question. This question is more about how we perceive our birds than anything else.

[Pajarita]

Well, a discussion is a debate is an argument. It just depends on which word you like to use but they all, pretty much, mean the same thing: presenting different views of the same subject. So, it seems to me that regardless of the words you might use in the question or proposition, a debate/discussion/argument will always ensue as long as there are different opinions -something inevitable in a public forum, no?

[seagoatdeb]

Wolf in order to make a question like this not a debate you might have had to have boxes we would check for our answer....lol...But seriously, when a new member says hello and introduces their parrot they dont want a lot of quesions they are just saying hello so no debate is needed. When a member is showing a picture or post of something new they want some feedback but not a debate. When you ask a question like this you are likely going to get debate. Is or is not questions, is going to make a two sided issue so will encourage debate. It really is a facinating topic.

[Wolf]

The difference between a debate or argument and a discussion is that with the debate or argument one tries to convince the other side that their opinion is correct, but this is not the case with just a discussion. With a discussion different ideas and concepts are often presented and even questioned but no one is trying to win it as in a debate. But, hey if you want to debate then go for it. While that was not my intent, I am not objectionable if that is what you wish to do.

[galeriagila]

I thought I had posted this remark, but I must not have hit the right button. Gah.

As a relatively new person here, I'm really enjoying reading your back-and-forth, I'm not much of a philosopher, having pretty much gotten comfy with the idea that I myself can't get very far in thought before hitting a wall of complete uncertainty. BUT, I do really enjoy observing people who have these discussions. I don't care to go on that road myself, but I like watching others' journey. Kinda like, I have no desire to go to South America, but I love watching travel/adventure shows on tv!

[seagoatdeb]

It is an interesting back and forth but it really isnt a debate you can win. The question is if we think our parrot is self aware or not, and we think what we think, so there would be no winning here. Sometimes it is hard to see if it is a lively discussion or a debate, but as long as people are polite, I dont mind myself.