Little bird rescues

[Pajarita]

Darn, this is the THIRD time I write this!

I don't think it would be liver. Liver disease does cause seizures but it's only on the very last stages that this happens and there are myriad other symptoms that appear before the seizures: overgrown beak and nails, greasy and/or bad plumage, fatty cysts and/or xanthomas, accumulation of ascites, discolored urates and poop, disorientation and lack of balance, etc.

I would definitely ask for a bile acids, mind you, because I am sure that there is already damage there (and I would put him on a detox regimen asap - I do this to every older birds or any that has been in a bad diet for a while) but I would also ask for hard metal testing and an ionized calcium test because both low calcium and metal poisoning are causes of seizures. Lack of vitamin D3 and A can cause seizures as well, but you are already taking care of that. The other two possibilities are chronic dehydration (much more common than people realize, especially when they don't eat fresh food daily) and what they call 'stress seizures' or 'racing heart syndrome' but I am not sure if I believe this actually exists because it sounds like one of those 'catch-all' default diagnosis that vets give you when they don't know what the heck is going on (the other one is allergies). Low or high sugar in the blood can also cause seizures but the vet would have seen this on the blood work recently done.

[Bird woman]

Relax pajarita, I heard this the first time. I'm trying to cover all my bases with Mathew and be armed with all the possibilitys before I take him back in there. When he had the last visit he went into a seizure and I have to have my ducks in a row with all the possibilities so's not to miss a thing in case this is brought on by stress or God forbid a heart condition. I'm a little disgruntled at my vet right now he's had 2 days to get back to me since the last call. But I did get a call from them asking me where I get my bird toys . and once again I requested a call back from the doc concerning Mathews last test results which I never got, just the DNA sexing. I guess the toys are more important.I've just about come to the end of my ropes . Tomarow I'm going to do some researching on a new specialist a couple hours away . Driving him to southern cal. Is out of the question as I would already worry about 2 hours away. Wolf was kind enough to send me a link on seizures that was quite informative and there's a few things that peeked my interest, such as the hypoglycemia but his diet is top notch now he quickly changed over to fresh foods. I just want to get him on the road to as good of health as he can possibly be and go through the records with a fine tooth comb since 2002. BW

[Wolf]

I wonder if the call back about toys was a hint at what the vet thinks might be a cause for these seizures. Many bird places buy toys that are produced in China, and these toys have been noted as very often having poor quality materials especially the metal parts and also there is concern over many of the dyes and paints used on these toys having lead and other heavy metals.

I also would not rule out the possibility of epilepsy. I have read more about this condition in macaws than in any other species of parrot. Not sure whether it is genetic or as the result of early trauma.

[Pajarita]

Yes, I also immediately thought of metal when I read they had asked about the toys. The thing is that you don't really know what he had access to when he was in his previous home and, if his seizures are because of something in his environment or diet, it happened in that home and not yours. But I would also be disgruntled if I did not receive a call with the bloodwork results within 5 days (they can do all the 'usual' test in 48 hours but, if they are doing fungal cultures, those take 5 days, at least).

And yes, hypoglycemia does bring seizures but the vet would have seen that right away in the chem panel.

[Bird woman]

They know I make all my bird toys , I think they were more interested in the virtually indestructible interactive baby toys I have that in 16 years the birds haven't been able to break. I am really hopeful that it is epelpsy , that can be controlled. I'm going to do some research on another vet now. WISH ME LUCK! And like you guys said , who knows what he's been exposed to before I got him. The one thing I do know is she stunk to hi heaven of perfume and hair spray when she got here and thank god my birds except Huie weren't in the house. This is not allowed even my grandkids know it is ala-natural when you come to granny's house! BW

[Pajarita]

Hmmmm I would not wish for epilepsy... In a dog or a cat, yes, on a parrot, no. I've known three parrots that had seizures that could not be explained by anything else but epilepsy and they all continue having seizures even while medicated.

[Wolf]

I know that for many years the go to drugs for epilepsy in humans were phenobarbital and dilatan, and I know that they use phenobarbital for birds with this condition. I have never experienced epilepsy in birds but I know than these drugs were often of little use in humans as they did not stop the seizures most of the time. Many of the people that I have known with epilepsy had much better results from pot. I would bet that it would be more effective in birds as well. The problem would be finding a strain that does not have a high level of THC as this would just get them stoned and is not the substance that works on seizures. I don't know if hemp seeds would do the trick or not, but perhaps the sprouts would be low enough in THC to benefit an epileptic bird. Not advocating it, but it is a thought.

[Pajarita]

BW might be able to get some hemp seeds to sprout but I don't think that all hemp has the same benefits...

Pheno works well with mammals, it just doesn't seem to work as well with birds and, besides, it destroys the liver over time. Maybe potassium bromide works better with them... at least, it doesn't damage the liver. But the problem with potassium bromide is that you need to medicate for a while until it builds up in the body and, because of that, it's very hard to come up with a good dosage and I think that is the reason why avian vets don't use it.

[Wolf]

It is true that there would be a variance as it is hard to know which cannabinoid is responsible for the improvement or to control how much is in each of the sprouts. When ever they have tried using synthetically produced ingredients from this plant, they don't work as well and there are side effects that are not present in the natural plant. This would lead me to believe that it is not just a single one of the cannabinoids but a synergistic effect of many of them.

[Pajarita]

Hmmm, to tell you the truth, I have NO idea how the medicinal cannabis works... I know they found a way of extracting the oil out of it and I know that they are constantly experimenting in developing new strains for specific results (I know this because a couple in NJ moved to Colorado as they could not find the strain that stopped their daughter's seizures here) but I don't know if they use single strains or several mixed together.