Reassure me, Will Scooter be OK?

[pchela]

Don't worry, I doubt scooter could kill the Cape, although I'd imagine he'd like to.

Does anyone have a picture of a Green Cheek next to a Senegal Parrot so I could compare their scale directly? I know how big a Senegal is compared to a Cape. I wonder how much smaller a Green Cheek comes out to be. They always seemed small to me but never seen a direct comparison.

I'd say about half the size but with a longer tail. They weigh around 80 to 90 grams if my memory is correct.

[Michael]

I've seen photos of the damage resultant of an out of cage encounter between two Amazon parrots. The owners heard all hell breaking loose in the neighboring room and intervened in time. But the damage was substantial.

But listen, your birds are clipped and you have the freedom to keep them quite far apart. Although my Senegal is a better match for the Cape, I probably have a lot more to concerned about because:

A) They both fly and can get in each others way very quickly
B) I plan to cage them together in the aviary

Don't let this fighting point stop you from getting a Cape (I do think there are other more pressing things to consider no less). You do have the option of keeping them well apart and taking them out only individual if worse comes to worst.

BTW, the Capes seem to be the less vicious Poicephalus. The Senegal Parrots are the killers. I have heard other cases of Senegals killing other birds. Never for a Cape.

[pchela]

I agree with Michael. The Senegals are the killers. Capes are known as the gentle giants for a reason.

[thegreatkatsby]

My Pi and Amazon get along fine...I don't have to worry about them hurting each other...but they're not friends in that they'll groom each other, etc.

I recently adopted a white-capped pionus to live with me and my blue-front amazon, and it makes me so happy to hear that your white-capped pionus gets along with your green-cheeked amazon. It's no guarantee that mine will have the same results, but just to know someone with a similar situation has had good results is very good news! I was most worried about the pionus being aggressive or territorial (especially because she can fly and the amazon can't--although her wings just got clipped today), but I haven't seen any signs of problems yet (separately, in their cages, across the room) except maybe a little attention jealousy on the part of the amazon.

[Michael]

Just to help offer you some reassurance that there are some things you can do to stimulate a better relationship, I'd like to point out a few blog articles I had written (in case you haven't already seen them):

Desensitizing Kili to Truman
Introducing Kili to Truman and Modeling Target Training
Early Steps about How to Tame a New Parrot
Kili and Truman Share a Perch
Kili and Truman Share Kili's Cage Top

Basically I think of this in some ways as similar to my flooding/positive/negative reinforcement technique for introducing new objects. Think back to how I got Kili to wear her flight harness by forcing her to be around it but also making it a very good experience for her. Now of course when you have two birds, it is much more complex but I think the same concept is beneficial. Except now it has to be applied twice rather than to just one bird. Both parrots are the training pupils here.

By training the two parrots together, I was able to distract them from each other and teach them alternative and better reinforced behavior. So for instance waving or targeting (rather than fighting) would produce treats for both parrots. They learn to tolerate and ignore each other and instead pay attention to me. Of course, when I walk away all bets are off. But the good thing is that the more of a safe interaction habit I can create between them when I am present, the more likely they don't harm each other when I'm not there. I want them to get so used to each other that they no longer care. For instance, Kili hasn't wrecked my keyboard in a while now. I just haven't been giving her the chance to and she got used to not being able to get to it. An even better example is how I can leave Kili's treat bowl (for training) relatively out in the open but she does not go to steal treats but does tricks to earn them.

If you leave the two birds on their own, there is likely to be a bad interaction where a fight breaks out. This leads to bad memories of each other and next time another fight will ensue. On the other hand, if you can force positive interaction always in your presence, then when they have a chance alone, they are less likely to take much notice of each other. My goal, like the keyboard and treats bowl, is to build enough habit of not being able to get it, that they don't fight under the same premise. Keep a watch of my blog as there will be many more updates about this flock interaction once Truman heels. Putting them together in the aviary should be quite revealing. Not sure if you have enough time before you have to decide but if they can get along all day in an aviary, then I think the odds of Cape + GCC are in much higher favor. I really don't know of many people with Capes and other parrots so this is fairly new ground we're breaking here.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

They weigh around 80 to 90 grams if my memory is correct.

Scooter is a steady 69 grams. He doesn't know it though, he's brave as lions, so we do have to be careful.

I will read those blog posts -- I did get behind on it, but for some strange reason it suddenly seems terribly relevant... lol.

[pchela]

Ah, so I was overestimating their size. That's less than half of an average Senegal. Either that or Scooter is a petite little man!

[Michael]

Yeah, that's pretty small. Kili will beak spar with Truman and her beak is about 3 times smaller. If we talk about a parrot half the size of a Senegal, I'd be even more worried. At least her beak is big enough to tap against Truman's and she can do enough with it to scare Truman off. Yet she is still smaller than him so he's not too uncomfortable. It comes out to be a fairly matched game for these reasons. I'm afraid scooter with be at a disadvantage.

Tell me. What do you think scooter would do if he were flighted. Fly toward the Cape or away from? In some cases flight facilitates escape. In others it encourages attack so it's important to consider both ways.

[ptuga72]

Tell me. What do you think scooter would do if he were flighted. Fly toward the Cape or away from? In some cases flight facilitates escape. In others it encourages attack so it's important to consider both ways.

When we first got Scarlet, Jake was fully flighted. He wanted to hang out with her soooooo bad! He was constantly flying to her cage, even breaking quarantine once (opened his water dish door flew up the stairs and into her room right as I opened the door). Scarlet is NOT a safe bird to have around smaller, appetizer sized birds. I ended up having to clip him, besides he flew about as good as a toaster with wings. Scarlet is clipped too, but that simply is because I wouldn't be able to control the situation if she got it in her head to do "fly by attacks".

we tried just clipping Scarlet, but he was so intent on getting to her, it was no longer safe for him. Even now, he'll climb off his cage/perch run to her cage and try to climb up/in (I always catch him first though).

It will just depend on Scooter. Green cheeks are so gregarious, but can be also be bullies. I think Jake is much happier now with Scarlet living with him, both have even picked up new words and sounds from each other. Of course Jake thinks that his 75 grams is equal to Scar's 410 grams

[entrancedbymyGCC]

Tell me. What do you think scooter would do if he were flighted. Fly toward the Cape or away from? In some cases flight facilitates escape. In others it encourages attack so it's important to consider both ways.

Based on his behavior towards the cat... fly towards. We have caught him twice jumping off his cage and chasing the cat. He runs flat out toward the cat, saying "Pretty Scoo Scoo". So far the cat has run away, but believe me, we don't encourage this. He has a strong startle response for sudden light and noises, but fear he seems to not have at all. I swear they don't realize they are small, Green Cheeks -- I think he is pretty typical, the Pyrrhurrhas are the smallest of the conures.

I guess I was just having a minute of cold feet, really, this morning. We'll be very cautious and while their cages will be in the same room, we don't really allow Scooter out unsupervised, and I doubt we'd let the new bird out unsupervised either. Although my husband has left Scooter out on his playstand by accident a couple of times... well, we'll just have to be careful. It would take a fair amount of effort for them to tangle unsupervised and I'm reassured that out and out aggressive violence with intent is fairly rare. And given the size disparity, even supervised interaction will need to be very cautiously introduced.