Grieving

[lightweight]

I stumbled across this forum yesterday while searching the internet. We have a Senegal who has killed 2 of our conures. Stupid, stupid mistakes on our part. We have had our conures for about 6 years and our senegal for about 4. These were our first forage into the larger parrots. My husband wanted parrots btu I insisted on smaller ones. We have cats as well as 2 bunnies. Because of the cat issue, as well as 2 young children-2 and 5) we have a separate room in our finished basement where the rabbits are free on the floor and the bird cages are there as well.

We got Bella (our senegal) through a rescue. They had no room for her and wanted to know if we would take her. I had my reservations because things were fine with the 2 conures and I really didn't want to introduce another species but left the decision up to my husband who accepted. Bella became part of our family like our other pets. Our first mistake was allowing them out together unsupervised. After we had Bella for 3 years (without a single issue) one day we went into the room to spend some time with them and found one of our conures dead in the middle of the floor. Blood all over Bella's beak. The only reason she didn't get to our other conure was because he was on medication and upstairs with us where we could keep a closer eye on him. We felt terrible but lesson learned and they were no longer allowed out together. For the past year it has been PJ (our conure) out for the first half of the day and Bella in the afternoon. PJ was totally my bird and I've just been so busy lately and not spending the time with him I should have been Anyways, we are not sure who did it (not that it matters anyways), but my husband or I forgot to secure PJ's food dish. We put in his food dish but the bar that snaps it in place was not locked in place. At some point within 2 hours (the time when I was last down there playing with them and my husband went down to put Bella into her cage for bed), Bella killed PJ. She walked across the room to his cage, pulled down the bar, pulled out PJ's food dish, went in and killed him. We found her sitting in his cage with him dead on the floor of the cage and his food dish on the floor of the room. We did not hear a single thing. We are devastated...a stupid oversight and this happens. We don't blame Bella but why would she even do that?? How would she know that she could get into the damn cage on that day??? We are always so careful and it just took one stupid mistake. We immediately removed our other birds (a lovebird and 3 budgies) from the room so she is alone now. We still give her plenty of attention, which is really difficult emotionally right now looking across the room to where PJ should be. We are just devastated and wish we could turn back time but can't. I should also add that our budgies have been sitting ducks for years as their food dish does not snap in completely and never has. I knew that they couldn't push it out but never dreamed a greater danger might be someone getting in. But Bella has never targeted the other birds or our rabbits...only the conures.

Any insight into Bella's violent behaviour (she is fine with our family members except we don't trust her around the kids without us) or how to get over this terrible guilt. It was our fault both times. Not intentional but still our fault. I would do anything to bring them back

[Azure Hanyo]

Some birds are just bird-on-bird agressive; I wouldn't call it "violent" behavior. It is natural. Your sennie saw threats to her attention with you, or she just didn't like the smaller birds, and she killed them. Nothing more.

There are clips you can get for the bird cages to help prevent escapes. Or maybe a new cage with a better food-dish system is in order, having your sennie alone without any bird-calls would be pretty lonesome for a bird, who are natural flock animals.

[Rue]

I agree. Some birds are just more aggressive than others. You had a bad experience, but now you know to take extra safeguards with Bella so this can't happen again. I also don't think isolating her is good - having other birds around is healthier.

Grieving is very individual. I can't help with suggestions. From what you described I wouldn't be blaming myself too much, because you did take care - and despite that care, an accident occured. Accidents are part of life. There are totally stupid avoidable accidents...but yours doesn't fall under that category. Don't blame yourself too much.

[Marnie]

i agree, who would ever think your sennie would actually go in the cage for a kill.
you never even knew this was a possibility until you found the 1st one dead, and what a shock that must have been!
you learned, and proceeded from that experience with extreme caution knowing the only way your conure was safe was in his cage, and this happens. its shocking, unbelieveable, but true.
your best efforts were for naught due to one little detail.
please forgive yourself, you tried, you really did.
this is an eye opener for all of us and could happen to any one of us. but because of the lesson learned here, you may have prevented the loss of any more pet birds.
as devastating as it is to lose not one but 2 birds this way, their loss was not in vain. we have all learned something here, more caution will be taken in multiple bird homes and lives will be saved, not lost.
i encourage you to go to other bird/parrot forums and tell your story. this needs to be out there for all bird owners who would never think of such behavior from such sweet little birds as sennies can be. this is part of their nature and personna and sometimes it rears its ugly head just when we least expect it. their natural instincts cannot be trained out of them, its always there.
you can blame it on the cage too, so many of them allow escape, or entry in your case, and it shouldn't be that way. i lost my budgie though no fault of my own when he opened the food dish door and flew away forever. i never in my wildest dreams thought that could happen, how such tiny birds could have the strength to lift and hold the door long enough to get out never crossed my mind.
so ease up on yourself, mourn the loss of your birds and go on. don't keep kicking your self with "what ifs" "if only" we are not mind readers nor can we forsee the future. you did right by your birds. this was a tragic accident, no more. try to understand and still love your sennie, its because she loves you so much she wanted no competition for your attentions. i know it will be hard,
you need time.

[lightweight]

Thank you for your kind words. I know it was an accident we couldn't forsee. I just feel like I really messed up but reading these words helps to keep me in reality and the fact that it really was just an accident. I wish things were different but they're not. I am just shocked that she would seek him out like this in his own cage. But she is a good girl and very affectionate. I know it was instincts. We were in complete shock with the first one...had no idea of the possibility. It felt like we were just getting over losing Prado and now this.

She is a good bird though and still an important part of our family. I have always known how much birds can be like children and require a lot of attention but realize it even more now. Bella has some serious jealousy issues. I hope to spend more time on this site in the future to learn more about her.

I have rescue cats and have had smaller birds (canaries are my favourite) and had always told my husband that the birds are his responsibility if he wants them. I take pet ownership seriously and I know he does too but he has gotten busy with work and I have picked up even more responsibility by caring for the birds basic needs. I am so busy with the cats, bunnies and my own kids I always said your responsibility. I need to step in and take the responsibility as he is getting busier with work and I get that, but it's not fair to the birds. I see support will be nice caring for a senegal and hope to get that and offer it here. Maybe I can try to post a picture of Bella soon even though it's obvious what she looks like

[pchela]

Senegals are known to be jealous birds and little bullies. I've often heard breeders refer to Senegals as mate killers. It's not your fault and Bella was acting on instinct. Still, it must be so difficult to be kind to her and not resent her right now. Were they Green Cheek Conures? I would think a larger Conure would have been able to defend itself a little more.

I am very sorry for your loss. I would be devastated if I lost one of mine and it would be doubled if it was at the hands of another one of my birds.

You did take precautions. Sometimes stupid accidents happen and if nothing else, maybe somebody will learn from your experience and avoid something like this happening to somebody else so thank you for sharing.

[thegreatkatsby]

I am so sorry for your loss. The accidental death of a pet is painful enough, but to know that it was at the hands of another pet makes it worse. At the very least, your Senegal is lucky to have owners who understands that it was a 'natural' act, and not one of malice. Still, I am so so sorry.

The first thing that came to my mind was the mix of parrot types--the Senegal as an African parrots, the Conures as New World parrots, and the budgies as Australian parrots. I wonder if that diversity makes it difficult for some parrots to see others as their "flockmates"? The second thing that came to mind was the flock hierarchy. Since the conures were your first birds, and you undoubtedly bonded with them first, the Senegal might have been jealous and wanted more attention or more recognition in the flock. Her lack of interest towards the budgies reinforces this belief in my mind. Because she watches you feed and interact with the conures every day, she probably knew very well how the latches and mechanisms of the cage work, and waited for the opportunity to make a move to establish her dominance in the flock. It's so sad and unfortunate that the conures were not able to defend themselves, but to Bella they might have seemed dominant and she felt she had to "put them in their place", not realizing she could mortally wound them (although that's hard to say).

This is very relevant to me right now because i just adopted a Pionus and I am concerned about her interactions with my blue-fronted Amazon. Although I don't have any particular aspirations for them to perch together, I would like it if someday (months from now? years?) I could have them both out of the cage at the same time (but separate--on cage tops or separate perches). To my knowledge, and from my observations, I have not seen territorial or aggressive behavior from either one yet (across the room, in their own cages). At the same time, there might be signs I am not seeing because this is the first time I have added a new member to the flock. From your experience, do you have any advice on warning signs to look for? Right now I am trying to focus on making sure my Amazon knows she has 'first bird' priority placement in the flock hierarchy and the Pionus knows that she is welcome as a new member of the flock. So far, so good, but I don't want to overlook anything that might result in tragedy later on.

[lightweight]

I did not see any warning signs at all...until she killed our first conure. The weird thing is that both times, my first thought was 'oh my God...could my gentle bunnies have done this' (that was before I realized PJ was found in his cage and not on the floor). My first thought was that I had left the cage door open because how else could it have happened. Even after Bella had dropped Prado's (the 1st conure she got to) body to the floor the rabbits never went near it surprisingly. The blood on her beak let us know the real story. We had always assumed that when Prado died (he was VERY meek and timid after coming froma parrot rescue where he was out among Macaws and the like) that he had been scared by some noise (a bang or something) and flew onto Bella's cage where she got territorial and attacked, now we wonder if she just decided to attack and flew over to his cage seeing as we know she could have easily went to him now. He was found right in the centre of the room not really closer to either cage.

As for having your birds out together, I think it is possible as long as you are always present. I would never turn my back for a second having 2 out together after what we've been through. Either time it happened to us, if we had been in the room we would have caught it. We also don't know Bella's prior background.

They were smaller conures. Prado was a green cheek and PJ was a maroon belly. All I can hope is that it was quick and painless. I never saw PJ as my husband kindly cleaned everything up but I found Prado and I still have the image in my mind. We have a window insert in the door to give them more light and stimulation since it is half of our finished basement and I could see him laying there in the middle of the floor and then it was all a blur. I raced in, grabbed a towel from my laundry room and scooped him up. I just had to hold him even though I knew he was already gone.

The weird thing is that we haven't been ready to bury Prado yet so he has been in our freezer for a little over a year now and now we will have to bury them together.

I give Bella extra attention and we are enjoying it and then my thoughts drift to what she did. It's still so soon after and I know that will change but it is very difficult right now. I haven't been able to clean the floor yet so the poop where PJ hangs his bum over the cage is still there. When I am enjoying my time with Bella or my children and life goes on I feel guilty that life is going on without him. I wish things had worked out differently and it's hard right now, but I know it will get better. I know it's not her fault but it is still difficult knowing that she is capable of such a thing and to actively seek him out like that. I wish I could have a friend for her but I just can't trust her right now. It is odd that she is capable of such a thing but isn't like that to us at all. Even though she should be more bonded to my husband who handles her more, she is still accepting of all of us. Maybe because she knows I feed her and clean up after her..

Does anyone know if I should be concerned about my bunnies. Would she turn on them? If she did, could it be damaging. Wondering now if I should move her to another room since they like to hide under her cage sometimes...

[Rrrma]

I am so sorry for your loss! I pray it was very quick for them as well. It is always hard losing a loved one, so I'm sending lots of hugs to you.

Does anyone know if I should be concerned about my bunnies. Would she turn on them? If she did, could it be damaging. Wondering now if I should move her to another room since they like to hide under her cage sometimes...

If she did, she would be the one in real danger. Rabbits are scarily strong and aggressive when in 'fight or flight' mode. I'd consider moving her, for her own sake, or always supervising them. I really doubt she would try anything with them... but I'd hate to chance it.