Adoption Specifics, Please help

[Brittanyv326]

Since I did my research not too long ago, I remember what you're going through. You said you'd like a bird that talks, but is quiet. What I found in a lot of articles was that normally you get one or the other. I personally deemed quiet more important than being able to talk, because I don't need to be impressed to love an animal and I would likely resent a pet if it was constantly noisy. I don't think it's a horrible thing to want your bird to talk, just accept that it may not happen and consider what you would do if you got a bird home that you thought had potential to talk and never did. Another thing to consider IS size, since the bigger the bird, the noisier. I agree with Michael (is this the most common phrase on this site or what?) in his suggestion of a budgie, and have often heard them being referred to as the best talkers and because they're very small, they can't get that loud. As far as tricks go, you can basically youtube most parrot species and find them doing really cool things. In my opinion, most of it lies in the hands of the owner. The owner must be extremely dedicated to the goal. I thought I'd teach Sadie a lot of tricks, but so far I haven't. I just snuggle with her, pet her, play with her, and talk to her most times. Things can change once you have the bird. Try spending time around some different species and get to know how they are, because you can do all the reading in the world, but what's going to help is the actual experience. I found that out real quick

Sorry I kind of went on a tangent, it's kind of my style.

P.S. Lots of people seem to say "let the bird pick you" once you get to the point of going and looking at potential pets.

[Michael]

I am so amazed bye the shear discipline of your birds not to mention their amazing training, i commend you. it was quite amazing how the children and dog did not really distract the birds that much. how do you feel about not clipping a birds wings though?

What?

ha ha it is actually a dream of mine somewhat unrealistic i admit but if at all possible something id like to attempt. I just have this image of a pirate pointing to something on a counter and the bird retrieving it, silly i know. also is their a difference in recognition of objects to names and linguistic skills? what i mean by this is that it is not very important to me that my bird can speak very much as that it understands what i say, not anything intricate but say a command such as retrieve and an object ball. is this unrealistic? and how much do parrots understand of what their masters say?

Well, my parrot knows over 30 behaviors. Most of them are cued by a word or the sight of a prop. So at the very least I can say she understands 30 concepts of some sort. If she can wave her foot upon hearing the word "wave" and shake her head upon hearing the word "shake," I can't imagine why she couldn't fetch square or circle based on what she is told. It's just that this would take an incredible amount of patience and training (but I do plan to do it eventually, actually I started a while back but gave up for a while). I think anything from a budgerigar to a macaw could learn this but so it's just a matter of how much time/effort it would take. The Budgie you saw in the video had learned over 10 behaviors in approximately half a year. I can't imagine why that couldn't be transferred to objects either. They would just have to be really small and distinguishable.

In terms of outdoors is a harness completely safe? and if i were to know that my parrot would not get spooked is no leash or harness still very dangerous if my parrot knows how to return?

No, the harness is not completely safe at all. Firstly, here are some dangers that exist in taking a parrot outdoors with or without a harness:

-Birds of prey (hawks, falcons, eagles, owls, etc... even if you are unaware of them)
-Terrestrial predators (coyotes, racoons, etc, maybe not everywhere but possible)
-Carnivorous pets (other people's cats, dogs)
-Home Sapiens (actually people are probably the #1 biggest threat: theft, accident, etc)
-Illness (it could be caught from other birds including pigeons)
-Over stress (if it's bad enough, the parrot could get too scared and over stressed)

If the harness breaks, the parrot will become a free bird. Even if the harness doesn't break but the parrot chooses to fly into a tree, it could get caught to the point that the bird cannot be freed from the ground. A flighted parrot really should not be taken outdoors with a harness as the primary means of restraint unless extensive indoor flight training has been performed successfully. The harness is not meant as a restraint but just as backup in case the parrot is spooked. If you depend on the harness at all for restraint, then the parrot was not properly trained and will be put at great risk by flying with a harness.

My main reason for relying on a harness is because I live in a densely populated urban environment. If my parrots were to get lost, it would be nearly impossible to find them. In 2 seconds they can be out of sight behind building and in someone's private yard. This just isn't a chance that I can take. With Kili, in recent months I have not so much as had a single fly off. I could probably take her outdoors with 99.9% confidence without a harness that she would not fly away (or that I could still recall her back if she did). However, that 0.1% chance is still not something I am ready to take. And this is after several years of very intensive training and a strong bond.

Please do not purchase a parrot with any intention of outdoor freeflight or taking it outdoors unrestrained. That is simply an accident waiting to happen. Even the "experts" get their parrots killed by doing this.

also what are your feelings on parrotlets? or the general feel about them. they were my original interest in parrots i find them very appealing.

I think parrotlets are cute but they are wickedly overpriced. If a budgerigar sells for $10-$20 and a parrotlet for $200-$400, it seems pretty out of line when they are the same size and all. I'm by no means saying they aren't a wonderful parrot, but I think the pricing is quite disproportionate. If it's the only species that appeals and you are willing to spend the money, then go right ahead.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

Well, my parrot knows over 30 behaviors. Most of them are cued by a word or the sight of a prop. So at the very least I can say she understands 30 concepts of some sort. If she can wave her foot upon hearing the word "wave" and shake her head upon hearing the word "shake," I can't imagine why she couldn't fetch square or circle based on what she is told.

Well I think the difficulty here is teaching the parrot the concept of labeling shapes. It can be done, clearly, but I think it is a lot harder than pairing a verbal command with an action. You'd need to teach 3 different things and have the bird be able to put them together. "Get" is probably pretty easy, you point out an object and the bird learns to pick it up and bring it. But the next two steps, teaching the label and generalizing it (you don't just want a specific circle or key, you want the bird to be able to understand that, out of a bunch of objects, one meets the criteria of being a circle or a key and the others do not. This is complicated, and is why what Alex could do is so remarkable, as he took that ability quite far. I'm not sure every parrot has the ability to go that far. Then when you have both the "Get" command and the generalized label, you have to instill that "Get the key" or "Get the circle" means bring me just that and nothing else. That's probably relatively easy again.

I think if you were teaching it as a trick, where you could use an identical prop, would be relatively easy. "Getthekey" and "Getthecircle" would just be specific tricks using a specific prop. However, I don't think that's what our pirate wants. He wants the bird to bring him the key to the prison cell, and he's never seen THAT key before, so he has to have a generalized concept of "key".

Am I making sense?

As for what they understand, I suspect they understand a lot more than they verbalize unless they are very talented talkers. There are two skills involved in "talking" -- one is recognizing that the sounds we make are communication and having an inclination to attempt to learn that new communication. The second is actually being able to reproduce the sounds with high fidelity. Scooter does a lot of "Talking" I just can't understand, but I can recognize the rhythm of it as human-speech-like. Scotty has a lot of well-articulated phrases, but many are just things he's picked up and doesn't use with particular intent. He's good at hearing sounds and reproducing them, and he has used words in an appropriate context often enough that I think he has the wherewithal to be a good talker. However, he doesn't label THINGS at all, he labels actions, and so does Scooter. So I think it may be more natural to label actions... like "everybody fly away NOW".

[silentobserver]

Well, my parrot knows over 30 behaviors. Most of them are cued by a word or the sight of a prop. So at the very least I can say she understands 30 concepts of some sort. If she can wave her foot upon hearing the word "wave" and shake her head upon hearing the word "shake," I can't imagine why she couldn't fetch square or circle based on what she is told.

Well I think the difficulty here is teaching the parrot the concept of labeling shapes. It can be done, clearly, but I think it is a lot harder than pairing a verbal command with an action. You'd need to teach 3 different things and have the bird be able to put them together. "Get" is probably pretty easy, you point out an object and the bird learns to pick it up and bring it. But the next two steps, teaching the label and generalizing it (you don't just want a specific circle or key, you want the bird to be able to understand that, out of a bunch of objects, one meets the criteria of being a circle or a key and the others do not. This is complicated, and is why what Alex could do is so remarkable, as he took that ability quite far. I'm not sure every parrot has the ability to go that far. Then when you have both the "Get" command and the generalized label, you have to instill that "Get the key" or "Get the circle" means bring me just that and nothing else. That's probably relatively easy again.

I think if you were teaching it as a trick, where you could use an identical prop, would be relatively easy. "Getthekey" and "Getthecircle" would just be specific tricks using a specific prop. However, I don't think that's what our pirate wants. He wants the bird to bring him the key to the prison cell, and he's never seen THAT key before, so he has to have a generalized concept of "key".

Am I making sense?

As for what they understand, I suspect they understand a lot more than they verbalize unless they are very talented talkers. There are two skills involved in "talking" -- one is recognizing that the sounds we make are communication and having an inclination to attempt to learn that new communication. The second is actually being able to reproduce the sounds with high fidelity. Scooter does a lot of "Talking" I just can't understand, but I can recognize the rhythm of it as human-speech-like. Scotty has a lot of well-articulated phrases, but many are just things he's picked up and doesn't use with particular intent. He's good at hearing sounds and reproducing them, and he has used words in an appropriate context often enough that I think he has the wherewithal to be a good talker. However, he doesn't label THINGS at all, he labels actions, and so does Scooter. So I think it may be more natural to label actions... like "everybody fly away NOW".

yes i think identification and comprehensions are the main issues, i am not looking for the parrot to retrieve random objects,but the parrot would indeed have to recognize the object as it would be different slighty from that which it most likely trained with. would directing a bird help it all such as pointing to the object?

[silentobserver]

I am so amazed bye the shear discipline of your birds not to mention their amazing training, i commend you. it was quite amazing how the children and dog did not really distract the birds that much. how do you feel about not clipping a birds wings though?

What?

ha ha it is actually a dream of mine somewhat unrealistic i admit but if at all possible something id like to attempt. I just have this image of a pirate pointing to something on a counter and the bird retrieving it, silly i know. also is their a difference in recognition of objects to names and linguistic skills? what i mean by this is that it is not very important to me that my bird can speak very much as that it understands what i say, not anything intricate but say a command such as retrieve and an object ball. is this unrealistic? and how much do parrots understand of what their masters say?

Well, my parrot knows over 30 behaviors. Most of them are cued by a word or the sight of a prop. So at the very least I can say she understands 30 concepts of some sort. If she can wave her foot upon hearing the word "wave" and shake her head upon hearing the word "shake," I can't imagine why she couldn't fetch square or circle based on what she is told. It's just that this would take an incredible amount of patience and training (but I do plan to do it eventually, actually I started a while back but gave up for a while). I think anything from a budgerigar to a macaw could learn this but so it's just a matter of how much time/effort it would take. The Budgie you saw in the video had learned over 10 behaviors in approximately half a year. I can't imagine why that couldn't be transferred to objects either. They would just have to be really small and distinguishable.

In terms of outdoors is a harness completely safe? and if i were to know that my parrot would not get spooked is no leash or harness still very dangerous if my parrot knows how to return?

No, the harness is not completely safe at all. Firstly, here are some dangers that exist in taking a parrot outdoors with or without a harness:

-Birds of prey (hawks, falcons, eagles, owls, etc... even if you are unaware of them)
-Terrestrial predators (coyotes, racoons, etc, maybe not everywhere but possible)
-Carnivorous pets (other people's cats, dogs)
-Home Sapiens (actually people are probably the #1 biggest threat: theft, accident, etc)
-Illness (it could be caught from other birds including pigeons)
-Over stress (if it's bad enough, the parrot could get too scared and over stressed)

If the harness breaks, the parrot will become a free bird. Even if the harness doesn't break but the parrot chooses to fly into a tree, it could get caught to the point that the bird cannot be freed from the ground. A flighted parrot really should not be taken outdoors with a harness as the primary means of restraint unless extensive indoor flight training has been performed successfully. The harness is not meant as a restraint but just as backup in case the parrot is spooked. If you depend on the harness at all for restraint, then the parrot was not properly trained and will be put at great risk by flying with a harness.

My main reason for relying on a harness is because I live in a densely populated urban environment. If my parrots were to get lost, it would be nearly impossible to find them. In 2 seconds they can be out of sight behind building and in someone's private yard. This just isn't a chance that I can take. With Kili, in recent months I have not so much as had a single fly off. I could probably take her outdoors with 99.9% confidence without a harness that she would not fly away (or that I could still recall her back if she did). However, that 0.1% chance is still not something I am ready to take. And this is after several years of very intensive training and a strong bond.

Please do not purchase a parrot with any intention of outdoor freeflight or taking it outdoors unrestrained. That is simply an accident waiting to happen. Even the "experts" get their parrots killed by doing this.

also what are your feelings on parrotlets? or the general feel about them. they were my original interest in parrots i find them very appealing.

I think parrotlets are cute but they are wickedly overpriced. If a budgerigar sells for $10-$20 and a parrotlet for $200-$400, it seems pretty out of line when they are the same size and all. I'm by no means saying they aren't a wonderful parrot, but I think the pricing is quite disproportionate. If it's the only species that appeals and you are willing to spend the money, then go right ahead.

but are you saying they are a wonderful pet, for me i am more concerned with the quality of what i am purchasing, not the price tag. If i have to shell out a few extra clams i wont lose sleep over it, ya know?

[entrancedbymyGCC]

Um, yeah, I didn't think value was directly correlated with size... more that budgies are abundant, easy to breed and often not hand raised. More market forces and breeder labor/efficiency not that they are priced per pound....

[footfoot]

I had a parrotlet for 2 weeks before my dog got him. Very charismatic and energetic, but a bit nippy. The nippiness could be deal with in time, I imagine. I really enjoyed our brief time together. I moved onto a larger bird, a Senegal, that doesn't generate the hunting instinct near as much as the much smaller parrotlet.

I really like my Senegal. He definitely prefers me over anyone else in the family, which is tough on my daughter. I might end up getting her a parrotlet or a cockatiel.

If you're adopting, be careful of problem owners and their neglected birds. They can be a handful.

[silentobserver]

I had a parrotlet for 2 weeks before my dog got him. Very charismatic and energetic, but a bit nippy. The nippiness could be deal with in time, I imagine. I really enjoyed our brief time together. I moved onto a larger bird, a Senegal, that doesn't generate the hunting instinct near as much as the much smaller parrotlet.

I really like my Senegal. He definitely prefers me over anyone else in the family, which is tough on my daughter. I might end up getting her a parrotlet or a cockatiel.

If you're adopting, be careful of problem owners and their neglected birds. They can be a handful.

Tragedy, only two weeks, i did hear they were very cheerful little birds, if you could say though which would you prefer, your segenal or the parrotlet?

[entrancedbymyGCC]

Tragedy, only two weeks, i did hear they were very cheerful little birds, if you could say though which would you prefer, your segenal or the parrotlet?

Er, I think that's like asking, "do you prefer your son or your daughter?" Scooter and Scotty are VERY different types of bird, but I'd be hesitant to say which one I preferred. I can however enumerate the ways in which they are different.

[Michael]

but are you saying they are a wonderful pet, for me i am more concerned with the quality of what i am purchasing, not the price tag. If i have to shell out a few extra clams i wont lose sleep over it, ya know?

Let's just say they are disproportionately expensive for being exotic/rare. I don't see them as a prime choice. Not the best bang for the buck. If it's specifically what you want, go for it but otherwise I think other similar species can be a better deal and achieve the same goals/results.