Parrots and Travel

[MandyG]

In all the time I've been driving cars, boats, and flying airplanes, I have (luckily) never gotten into an accident.

Just because you've never gotten into an accident doesn't mean you never will. My cousin lost her cat last year when she got into a freak accident and it was in the car, the car rolled and the impact killed the cat. It may have lived if it was in a carrier that was seatbelted in, but we don't know that for sure. It was her first accident and completely not her fault. Also I lost an old friend last week who didn't believe in seat belts because he never got into accidents and there was no point. He fell asleep and rolled his truck, he was thrown from the truck and it landed on him. Just saying that just because it's never happened doesn't mean it won't...

Anyway, I think that a lot of good points have been made from each side. Definitely a great thread to make sure people are aware of the types of risks that are involved and being aware of the risks are the biggest part. If you're aware of the risks you can make your own decision on whether it's worth it or not for you. Personally I'm 'selfish' because I believe in having a home where all of my animals can be out and feel at home in their own house. Each to their own I guess .

[Michael]

Awareness is the most important thing.

And I'm not saying I won't ever get in an accident. I just know how long I've gone without one and how little time the parrot spends in the car and how much less out of the carrier that the likelihood of the accident happening at that time is extremely small. I know it exists and it's my choice to take it. I don't necessarily think other people should do that.

By the way, I am fully aware that keeping the parrot caged is probably the most selfish decision most of us make. We cage the parrot more for our own convenience than for their sake. However, we cannot supervise them 24/7 and both for their safety and our sanity, I think it is an almost necessary part of parrot ownership. Furthermore, they are used to being caged all their life (for captive bred) that they don't know otherwise and don't feel like their freedom is impeded. They like their cage and willingly go back in it. So there exists a balance here.

[Suzzique]

Think of our birds cages in this way. Thier cage is thier nest and roosting spot. They know this is a safe place and is thier house (so to speek). So after a hard day of play it's nice to go into thier nest to sleep for the night. We provide lots of toys, food ect so that when they have to stay in thier home it's more fun for them.

I have been in severl accdents (none were my fault). Fortunetly I've never had any of my pets in the car with me when they have happened. I am all to aware of what can happen. However when I take Alex out with me he is only ever in his harnes. I don't have a travle cage for him right now. Now when I have to take Martini out to have his nails done he goes in his travle cage (it's to small for Alex). His cage is set belted in. I don't know how much this would really help if I was in an accdent but it doesn't hurt.

[windharper]

You really are over dramatizing the risk. In all the time I've been driving cars, boats, and flying airplanes, I have (luckily) never gotten into an accident. The parrot is rarely out for more than 10 minutes on the occasional car ride under easy driving conditions. There is a risk and I understand this. However, I personally find the risk worthwhile.

No, I believe you are trivializing your decision to risk your parrot. A child may love to be free to crawl around the car while we drive, but, we don't let them do it because we know it's not safe. We have to make decisions for their safety they may not like. We have to be the parent here.

I also take a risk by having a flighted parrot. I don't think it is worth living life in a box. Some risks have to be taken like getting up in the morning. I personally consider that letting the parrot fly in my home is a risk well worth taking for the quality of life for my pet as well as my own enjoyment.

I have no argument regarding keeping your parrot flighted. Although both mine came to me clipped. I have observed them as their wings have grown back in and I don't think I will get them clipped again. And I'll even agree that some risks are worthwhile for quality of life reasons.

Letting her out for a little bit in the car, to me, outweighs the very unlikely even of a car accident and the unlikelier even that it would affect the bird.

You don't know an accident won't happen. You don't know if it is unlikely to affect your bird. You are guessing because this is what you want to believe. Add to this that most accidents happen within 5 miles of home and you are inviting trouble into your life and your bird's. You are young enough to still believe that you are infallible. All this stuff happens to someone else. I am old enough to know that this is just not true.

You have more control of safety at home. There are so many other factors that happen on the road that you absolutely have no control over.

She willingly and gratefully comes out of the carrier to be out in the car. I am not defending it or saying this is something everyone should do. However, I think it is a risk I find worth taking and my parrot isn't complaining.

I'm sure a baby would love to be on Mom's or Dad's lap while they are driving. But we don't do it, even if we are a safe driver.

We haven't even touched the surface about the distraction to your driving while you are fussing with your bird while it's out of it's carrier in the car. If it's considered to be equatable to driving drunk if we text or talk on are cell phone or eat a Big Mac while driving, I wonder how it would be rated to be interacting with a parrot.

Now introducing a carnivorous predatory animal is a completely different story. The parrot gets absolutely NOTHING out of the addition. That is strictly for the human's enjoyment. Letting my parrot fly or be out in the car are risks but the parrot gets something out of it and seems eager to have those opportunities. However, people who keep carnivorous pets in conjunction with parrots are signing the parrot up for a risk that serves no value at all to the parrot. Now that is just selfish...

Remember that I agree with you here about the dangers of dogs or cats with birds. But they are domesticated animals and not quite fresh out of the wild....this is material for a different time and post.

Why am I taking the trouble to argue this with you? Because you are a respected leader in training birds. The contributions you have made on YouTube are formidable. This puts a responsibility on your shoulders to be that shining example of not just what to do with your birds but what not to do. And I find this ~one~ thing to be so opposite what you stand for. I couldn't not watch more than a few seconds of both your car ride and your plane ride with your bird free to roam in your vehicles. I felt it was incredibly risky, if not foolish. (Please keep in mind here, I am addressing your actions and not you personally.) This whole thing just seems so out of character to what you represent.

[Michael]

First off, having the parrot out in the plane was harmless and carried a drastically lower risk than in the car. I will continue taking her flying and letting her be out in an airplane. As for car accidents. I'm not saying that just because I've never been in one I feel that it will never happen. This is not the case. I'm just saying it helps me create a risk probability assessment that if in X number of years, Y number of accidents, etc. I have the bird in a carrier in the car probably less than 1 out of 100 times I drive. Of the times I have her in the car, I have her out for less than 10 minutes. Yes an accident can happen at any time but the odds of it happening with her in the car at all are small and much smaller still with her out. This is all I am going by. And talking about a child roaming a car is a faulty comparison. We keep the carrier on the floor where she can't see anything. That's more like putting a child in the trunk.

I really hate having to justify all of this but you are forcing me to by putting me on the defensive. I'm not trying to say it's a great thing and I know there exists a risk and I know that I am taking it. I know it's not the safest thing to do but it's a risk I want to take. I'm not saying others should do this. However, I'm not putting the parrot at risk purely for my own enjoyment. The video was just messing around but normally if I have her out she's just sitting on my shoulder watching. She is getting value out of the risk by taking a break from the carrier rather than me playing with parrot while driving.

Another thing you have to consider when comparing risks is the interval of exposure. While we agreed that there are many things that can be controlled in the house for a flighted parrot, when you consider a typical lifespan of 30-60 years, that is a long time for something to go wrong (open window, toilet seat, fan, etc). This is why teflon is a major concern. One instance of using it is unlikely to kill the bird but over a few years the odds of forgetting just once out of thousands of times can happen. I've probably had Kili out in the car like this about 10 times total. The fact is, when I compare that risk to the overall life term risk of her being flighted at home, I don't think the risk is too great. I think there exist greater risks to her health than the rare occasions I let her out in the car for short duration. Yes this is a risk. Yes it is avoidable. But I personally find it worth taking for the socialization benefits of it for the parrot.

Also, I'm not really fumbling or distracted with the bird while driving. Usually there is someone else there or I'm getting her while parked or at red light. Most of the videos with her in the car were in a parking area or waiting at a red light so it's a bit exaggerated. She digs into my shirt with her claws so she has some restraint and she doesn't fly around the car. She can if she has to though. All I'm saying is that it's a very small amount of time and a very small risk. It exists and I am completely aware of it. But it is activity like this and many other things that have led her to being a more social parrot, less phobic, and better tamed.

There are many things we do in our lives and risks we take. We know they exist and we do them anyway. Some of these things, it just wouldn't be worth living our lives without. For some it's eating certain foods they know are bad for them, for other people it's sports, etc. Mine is flying. I love to fly. I am aware of risks involved. I fly sailplanes (airplanes without an engine) and it is a constant flight of risk assessment. It's a risk but things like this bring people so much enjoyment in life that it wouldn't be worth living without. So I try to be very safe with my parrot. If I have a risk or a flaw, this is the one. I think it's worth it to let her be out in the car a little bit, simple as that.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

OK, I'm going to jump in here, too, because I think risk is something few people really understand these days. We all take risks. We also tend to justify our choices. But I think when those of us in an authority role take the stance that their risks are "better" than ours things get complicated. So I offer the following for consideration, with all due humility.

Another thing you have to consider when comparing risks is the interval of exposure.

Yes, and no. This is one of those places where statistics often gets misused by the general public. While it is a true statement that if you expose yourself to a risk many times, the net probability of incurring the bad outcome after all the exposures are complete is higher than each individual exposure, the risk is EXACTLY THE SAME EACH TIME. Doing it the first time is just as risky as doing it the 100th. It could still be worth the risk, but you aren't buying immunity by doing it less rather than more. Not if it is truly statistical in nature.

There are many things we do in our lives and risks we take. We know they exist and we do them anyway. Some of these things, it just wouldn't be worth living our lives without. For some it's eating certain foods they know are bad for them, for other people it's sports, etc. [...] It's a risk but things like this bring people so much enjoyment in life that it wouldn't be worth living without. So I try to be very safe with my parrot. [...] I think it's worth it to let her be out in the car a little bit, simple as that.

I actually agree with this 100%. We all make choices, and it is best when we make them with our eyes wide open. We take our own desires into account along with our pets' safety. In my case, sharing my life with cats as well as parrots is one of those things, but I have been pretty heavily barraged with reasons why I shouldn't make that choice here. In my case, I am also very unlikely to have a fully flighted bird, because I feel the risks inherent until/unless we can have a fully secure bird room or aviary are not worth it for the pleasure I would get in seeing my bird have that freedom. The statistics in this case sway me into feeling that for me, the risk outweighs the benefit. Were I not able to reduce the nonstick pan thing to a financial issue rather than a lifestyle issue, I might have chosen to incur that risk for the lifestyle benefits granted but there was really no need make that choice, fortunately. I'm several hundred dollars poorer, but I now own only 2 PTFE nonstick pans and I may never use them. Are my choices any more or less selfish than anyone else's? I think not. They are just different. And perhaps somewhat less conforming in this community.

IMHO. FWIW.

[Michael]

You make some good points. I may not have phrased my thinking properly. I understand the odds of risk are the same and greater exposure just increases the likelihood that the risk would occur at least once in that greater interval.

What I think is important is not only to understand what risks we are taking with our pets but also if these risks are purely for us, purely for them, or mutually beneficial. And no one on this forum or who owns a parrot is completely guilt free. Everyone who has chosen to own a parrot did so for themselves and not the parrot. In the case of rescues, they are improving the situation compared to before but probably still not as good as being in the wild from the start. This isn't a point worth arguing much about but I just want everyone to realize that no one who owns a parrot is completely perfect because from the initial choice to have a parrot as a pet we are making a selfish decision for our own benefit. It is just up to us to make its life with us as fulfilling and safe as possible. However, this has to be within our capabilities and budgets.

[seagoatdeb]

You make some good points. I may not have phrased my thinking properly. I understand the odds of risk are the same and greater exposure just increases the likelihood that the risk would occur at least once in that greater interval.

What I think is important is not only to understand what risks we are taking with our pets but also if these risks are purely for us, purely for them, or mutually beneficial. And no one on this forum or who owns a parrot is completely guilt free. Everyone who has chosen to own a parrot did so for themselves and not the parrot. In the case of rescues, they are improving the situation compared to before but probably still not as good as being in the wild from the start. This isn't a point worth arguing much about but I just want everyone to realize that no one who owns a parrot is completely perfect because from the initial choice to have a parrot as a pet we are making a selfish decision for our own benefit. It is just up to us to make its life with us as fulfilling and safe as possible. However, this has to be within our capabilities and budgets.

Yes, We need to balance safety with fullfillment.... well said.

[ParrotsForLife]

I always travel with the birds and they wear flightsuits,I only use the harness for outdoor flying for exercise but cant do that in winter anyways they are free to fly around the house.The longest I have been out was 6 hours and that was with Rocko and I always pack food.Now most times when they go out its just going to the pet store or going shopping for food and when I go to my Grandad's every Friday the birds come,I never bring all them out I either bring Mango or Rocko and my sister brings Loki as she owns her but I do all the caring for her so I just call her mine.

[seagoatdeb]

If I take my parrots on trips I alsways have travel cages with me. I make up outings just to take my Red Belly out in the car. She just loves it. She spins around and peppers me with kisses when I tell her we are going for a ride in the car. She loves it so much. I often wondered why she loves it so much, and have thought it must be she feels like we are travelling as a flock somehow.