Budgie Mating.

[kaylayuh]

My budgies seem intent on mating. While I do not currently have eggs, I'm considering getting them a nestbox so that they are able to mate and have some place to keep their eggs. And since they seem so intent on mating, I don't really think there's much I can do in the way of preventing it.

I know we have some larger bird breeders here, so what should I know in the case of budgie breeding? I don't want this to be a multiple time thing where they are no longer pets and just a breeding factory. So if they do breed, I plan on separating male and female when they're old enough for me to tell the difference.

Most websites I've read (and I've read about a dozen) have said that I most likely wouldn't have to handfeed the chicks because the mother will be doing the feeding herself. I know there are breeding pellet formulations and I plan on getting one of them to ensure they have the proper diet. In what cases would I have to handfeed and how would I go about doing this?

Also, for those of you that do breed birds and have a working knowledge of bird genetics -- what color mutations do you think I would get with a Lutino female and a Slate male? I've been doing Punnets Squares all morning, and I can't seem to figure it out.

Right now, my crosses are suggesting I'd have half of the chicks being Slate females. I'm pretty confident that would be corrent, especially considering both Slate and Lutino mutations are sex linked and the male budgie would be passing on his Z chromosome here.

For the other chicks, however, my crosses are a bit more difficult. Because both traits are sex linked, one would have to act as the dominant. My assumption is that I'd get a bird with a gene for both the slate characteristic and the lutino characteristic. Assuming slate is dominant to the lutino, I'm guessing I'd get a slate bird with a green hue. If that assumption is wrong, however, and lutino is dominant to slate, I'm not really sure what I'd get. A mostly yellow budgie with some odd murky coloration? Guesses would be appreciated!

*My personal genetics interest is with human genetics, and bird genetics are quite a bit different. So if anyone would like to venture a guess (or actually has a working understanding of bird genetics), that would be awesome.

[patdbunny]

Ooohhh!! I love babies! I've bred budgies for a very limited time - like a few clutches almost 20 years ago so I'm not hip with the budgies, but can give you some general info:

"Most websites I've read (and I've read about a dozen) have said that I most likely wouldn't have to handfeed the chicks because the mother will be doing the feeding herself. In what cases would I have to handfeed and how would I go about doing this?"
Decide now as to what your comfort level is and under what circumstances you will or will not intervene. First time parents sometimes don't feed their babies, or don't know how to keep the babies warm enough. Cold babies don't elicit feeding from their parents and they die. Some breeders let babies die while the parents figure out parenting, some breeders take the babies and handraise them.

If you're going to intervene and handraise if necessary: If you've never handfed, it's best if you can get hands on instruction and practice from someone who's experienced with handfeeding. I understand that's not always possible. Go get the book: Parrots: Hand-Feeding & Nursery Management by Howard Voren and Rick Jordan
Go get a heat pad that does NOT have an auto shut off. Get two thermometers - one for the brooder set up, one for testing formula temp.
Go get handfeeding formula and get whatever feeding implement you're going to use.
I have a video clip of me handfeeding a two day old baby cockatiel that will give you an idea of what to expect: http://staringatbirdsandgoats.blogspot. ... being.html

"Also, for those of you that do breed birds and have a working knowledge of bird genetics -- what color mutations do you think I would get with a Lutino female and a Slate male? I've been doing Punnets Squares all morning, and I can't seem to figure it out."
20 years later and I'm still working on genetic understanding. . .

"Right now, my crosses are suggesting I'd have half of the chicks being Slate females. I'm pretty confident that would be corrent, especially considering both Slate and Lutino mutations are sex linked and the male budgie would be passing on his Z chromosome here."
All male babies will be split to lutino. If you get any lutino babies, then you know your slate male is split to lutino - any visual lutino babies can be male or female. If slate is sex linked, then any slate babies will be females since mom can't be split to slate. Your other baby color questions I dunno. When you deal w/ incomplete dominance, masking, etc. it gets more complicated. I just have fun with my pairings. If I don't like the colors that come out, I re-pair. Last year I had a lutino indian ringneck with a turquoise male. I should have had a high percentage of cremino babies. I didn't even get one cremino. I got a green and a lutino.
Here's a genetics calculator: http://www.gencalc.com/

[kaylayuh]

I would be heartbroken if any of the babies died, so I would probably handfeed. I've watched many videos of handfeeding, so I'm confident that should I need to, I'd be able to.

I'm just going to keep reading and reading and reading. If they do decide to have babies, I'd like to be prepared. If they don't, I won't be too disappointed.

I almost wish they did have babies though, I'm very curious about the colors! From websites I've been reading and a UK based budgie-genetics guesser, it looks like I was correct about the females being slate. The other budgies, at least according to the guesser thing, would look almost like normal wild mutation budgies.

[patdbunny]

The actual handfeeding part is very easy - my daughter was doing it when she was five years old. The other parameters are what make it a bit more complicated - brooding temp, formula temp, crop stasis, splayed legs, etc. Seriously - go get that book.

After you put up the box and the pair's going in and out of it, knock on it once or twice a day (early a.m. and at dusk) and then look in the box to get the birds used to you notifying them of nest checks. Some birds are not tolerant of nest checks and may break eggs, abandon the nest, kill babies, stop incubating. So you will need to adjust how often you do nest checks according to how the parents react. When there are cold, improperly brooded babies, I usually discover them in the early a.m. Even if a baby looks dead, hold it in your warm hands and sometimes they're not actually dead.

[GlassOnion]

Oh wow pat, your 5yr old daughter handfed? Brave girl! I'd be so nervous and terrified..

[patdbunny]

GlassOnion - My daughter didn't have a crib, she had a bird cage! She's always been around birds so doing things with them I'm sure is not something she overthinks. I don't remember the exact age I had her handfeeding, but definitely by the time she was 5 (of course she wasn't a full time handfeeder, it was just a fun experience for her). I remember her sucking on a binky while a baby 'tiel hatched in her hand. Now at 15 years old, she'll handfeed day old babies for me if I run errands.

[kaylayuh]

I am definitely going to get that book before they even know what a nest box looks like. I don't want to be unprepared for babies if they start having them.

[michellet]

I have found the following website to be a wealth of information on budgies. There's lots of info on breeding and colour mutations...and the admins and other very experienced budgie breeders welcome questions from new breeders, and if you post pics of your budgies they will be able to tell you the possible colours the babies will be.

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/faq ... 3&lang=en&


Generally, budgies are great parents and its rare that you'll need to hand feed. Dont breed birds that are less than 1 year old though, as if they are any younger the instinct to "parent" might not be strong enough and they wont care for the chicks. The male budgies are the primary feeders of the chicks, and its not uncommon for the hen to throw the babies out of the nest box when they are a few weeks old as they often want to lay a second clutch of eggs. If this happens remove the hen from the cage and leave the cock to raise the chicks.

Good luck

[Kim S]

Please please please dont handfeed. It isnt nessesary. I have been breeding budgies for several years now and believe me. If the mother isnt able to keep the baby alive, you certainly wont do any better! Budgies have a very good mother instinct and will do whatever it takes to keep the young alive. Have you ever seen a one day old baby budgie? Do you know how small that is? Are you sure you are able to get a seringe into that tiny litte beak?
If your birds are both tame you will be able to pick up the babies every day and tame them that way Its way easier than hand feeding them. With handfeeding you need to feed them every few hours every day for the next 6 to 8 weeks. Are you capavble of doing that? The temperature needs to be exactly right or they will either throw it up again or burn their crops and be unable to take in any nutricients after that. Not to mention the risk of choking during feeding. The risk of over feeding, crop dialation, sour crop ect.
On top of that, most handfed budgies become very agressive towards humans later on since they never learned proper bird behavior.

As for the colour mutation. I am not familiar with the slate gene. Its a very rare colour over here and I dont know how it will behave in combination with a lutino gene. But you are right. It is sexe linked and all the female young will be slate. All the males will be split for lutino and slate.

I am not really sure why you would want to breed them anyway if you dont really want to. There are a lot of risk involved. You dont need to. Just dont give them the opportunity. If you dont provide a nestbox they (usually) wont breed.

If you do, however, make sure the birds are in mating condition. Be sure the female is at least 12 monsth of age or risk her dying becouse one of the eggs isnt able to pass.
Make sure you have enough calcium available.
Make sure there is enough water and food available.
Make sure there is enough vegetables, vitamines, minerals ect available.
Dont mate them while they are molting.

[GlassOnion]

Even complete parent raised pet store budgies can be tamed really quickly especially when they are young. I agree that daily socialization with the babies as they grow would be more ideal. Don't you have school/work? In order to handfeed, you'd have to be stationed at home for over a month..