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Negative Reinforcement does not mean Punishment

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Re: Negative Reinforcement does not mean Punishment

Postby Michael » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:39 am

Nothing like that. There's no "wanting" or "having" to in operant conditioning. The actions are measured by the results. So if something is done and behavior increases, that is positive reinforcement. So you might think you are punishing a parrot by yelling at it for screaming, but if the bird screams more, you are actually positively reinforcing it.
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Re: Negative Reinforcement does not mean Punishment

Postby entrancedbymyGCC » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:36 pm

Well, not quite...

evaleen wrote:(over whelmed)
if the bird WANTS to do something bcuz of something we provide, that's POSITIVE reinforcement,

Correct
and if it HAS to do something bcuz of some action on our part, that's NEGATIVE reinforcement.

No. First of all, the bird really never HAS to do anything unless you physically force it to, and that's just plain manhandling the bird. Which isn't necessarily wrong, say if you need to towel to provide medical treatment, but the bird doesn't really learn anything (except maybe to be afraid) from being physically made to do something.

if the bird WANTS to do something because of something you take a way or stop doing, that's NEGATIVE reinforcement. Reinforcement always means encouraging a behavior. An example would be teaching a horse to move it's hindquarters to the side in response to a hand on their hindquarters pushing. You stop pushing when they step away and they learn to move over as soon as they feel the pressure because they want to step over and have the pressure removed.

and if the bird is testing the limits it is allowed, and if we guide it without causing a retreat from us, that's conditioning the bird.


Conditioning can mean a lot of things. In this case I think you really mean operant conditioning and that's a term that applies to all the methods we've discussed. It refers to modifying voluntary (not reflex) behaviors by providing consequences for those behaviors. You could also call it training. Classical conditioning is like Pavlov's dogs -- salivating at the sound of a bell. Essentially manipulating a non-voluntary response.

If a bird is testing its limits and you do absolutely nothing in response and the behavior stops because basically it accomplishes nothing, that's called extinction. Using training to guide your bird without losing its trust and instilling fear is called -- drumroll -- good bird handling!
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Re: Negative Reinforcement does not mean Punishment

Postby Michael » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:55 pm

entrancedbymyGCC wrote:if the bird WANTS to do something because of something you take a way or stop doing, that's NEGATIVE reinforcement.


Shame on you.
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